R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

JOsworth wrote:

Quoting these pictures to move awesome k-carness to the next page. I started my driving career in a 1981 k-car and I did my first motor swap to an '84 moving the complete 2.5 turbo and manual over from a Daytona. There was a time where these were the epitome of cheap speed and I loved them. My dad still has a Charger GLHS sitting in a garage somewhere. Unfortunately the source of mechanical bits dried up a few years ago and I'm not sure there was ever a source for interior bits and pieces. If you ever need anything for these find Vigo on the forums and ask. He took the last of my turbo Dodge stuff a couple of years ago and should know how to find about anything you need.
That 600 is cool. I'm very impressed.

In reply to redlx50:

I'm glad you're enjoying it. The pan is staying on. MB suggests checking for a bent rod and if it measures good then just roll with it, and although it looks like I'm going deep, if the motor were still in the car this would look like a pretty conservative fix. Dropping the whole thing to the floor makes it seem more impressive than it is. Makes it easy to work on though.

In reply to honda1:

I NEED to get back up by you to drive Cresson. I love that track. I extend the same offer to you if you get down to Houston. Give me a shout and stop by the Grosh and sit and have a drink and we'll talk cars.

Yes, replace those chain guides. They're probably just PA66 nylon like a zip tie or kitchen spatula. The ones on my M62TU cracked and fell off at about 120k miles. As for the crank bolt, mark the position before taking it off. Gives confirmation that it's torqued right when going back on. (especially if you go for the impact wrench method)

I believe the bolt is torque to yield. Mercedes recommends replacing it. It's a drop in the bucket.

OK I'm game 'timing guides' cousin to muffler bearings/piston return springs???

The plastic guides that the timing chain rides on. I'll take some more pictures when I get it apart, but I just found this thread that gives some spectacular pictures of the inside of a M156.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Not all torque-angle bolts are yielded. Many are recommended as one use due to factory applied dry lube. Go and replace it if it makes you feel better, but I reverse engineer the bolt stretch to determine if it yields when torqued. TTY bolts usually have a machined in area that yields first.

In reply to bowtieBMW:

That makes sense. I forgot to put it on my first parts order. I'll take a look at the bolt when it comes out and see whst we have.

I love this thread, deucey.

If you ever need anything for these find Vigo on the forums and ask... should know how to find about anything you need.

I just parted out a silver 1984 Dodge 400 (same as 600) Turbo Convertible a couple weekends ago. The remains are sitting in my driveway. So i guess you're right.

@Duece

Can you send me a PM? I'd like to talk to you privately. I get a message saying admin must authorize.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Here's a thread on the guides. When the cracks meet, the slippery bits fall off into the oil pan.

mazdeuce wrote: I believe the bolt is torque to yield. Mercedes recommends replacing it. It's a drop in the ocean.

FTFY

MB_tech2005 wrote: @Duece Can you send me a PM? I'd like to talk to you privately. I get a message saying admin must authorize.

Yoink!!!

MB_tech2005 wrote: @Duece Can you send me a PM? I'd like to talk to you privately. I get a message saying admin must authorize.

Sent you a message. If it doesn't show up, let me know and we'll get it sorted out.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Replied

Probably not much going on this weekend with the van. I need to deliver the rally car to the Rally Ranch so it can get prepped for the upcoming stage rally out there and get Deucekid#1 behind the wheel on the ralkysprint course to get her used to driving before she gets her permit.
I'm not sure if my kids are always entertained with my shenanigans, but I love to include them in the fun when I can.

Well, I'm weighing-in, finally, to a GRM community from a magazine I've read since my days of laying in mud and gravel changing parts on the boss's SCCA PRO Rally Div 2 Volvo 262 car that he loved rolling as much as he loved driving. I love this thread and admire your candor and attitude through the whole thing. The car stuff is itself fascinating, but there's a lot more about life when reading between the lines. Thank you for sharing.

It's clear, after reading this entire thread, that I should have been part of this community long, long ago. I say it's "clear" because I ascribe to a similar "if you want something broken properly, you just have to break it yourself" motto, even if it's a late-model German V8. I've got my deeply loved S5 sitting on stands in the garage at the moment, and it's but a wiring loom and ten subframe bolts away from engine-out, and not for the first time... which isn't related to fixing the initial problem (apparently, SAI pumps are not designed to pump puddle water - who knew?), but yanno, while I'm in there, might as well replace the clutch... and valve springs. Rabbit hole, and all that. The last time I had the bumper cover off the car, trolls knocked it onto the ground, marring the finish, so I figured that it was as good a time as any to tent-off the garage and teach myself how to spray 2K automotive paint. So, yeah, I should have come to GRM ages ago.

Oh, I should get to the actual reason for my post, which relates to removing the main crank bolt (but why say in ten words what you can say in five hundred?): Audi V6 and V8 engines have a crank locking pin tool, allowing you to lock the crank at TDC (for timing belt service), while also providing a way to prevent the crank from rotating while you loosen or tighten the main crank bolt. Handy. Does Mercedes have such a thing?

In reply to Europa:

I bought a 10 year old Mercedes out of warranty and even I'm not mentally ill enough to consider Audis like yours. You'll fit in here perfectly.
As to the locking pin, fantastic invention, everyone should do that, but Mercedes has used the same type tool to hold the balancer for years and they seem to be comfortable with that solution. At least they use chains instead of belts that require known periodic massive disassembly. Mercedes seems to surprise you with crushingly expensive engine work while Audi schedules it.

Heh, it seems like I may have said a four-letter word here. My Audis have all been very reliable, and most of the extensive disembowling I've done is related to a combination of well-deserved wear-and-tear maintenance on a car that gets thoroughly driven, scope creep ("well, since I'm already this far..."), or expensive and time-consuming remedial lessons on properly aligning steel bolt threads in aluminum engine mounts. Ahem. I guess I'll admit that 3/4 of my new Audis have been fantastically reliable and reasonable on the maintenance costs. The Q7, though... was a peach until the warranty expired, at which point it came out to friends and family as a Monday Car with a ton of fuel system issues that baffled the dealership techs for three months (3.0T engine, for those making a list). Granted, it was the ex-wife's Monday Car problem at that point, which I say without an ounce of Schadenfreude (she's a good chick for the most part). I bought an extended warranty forty days before the factory warranty expired. It has since paid for itself. Twice.

BTW, the newer Audi V8s use timing chains now (starting ca. 2004 4.2L). Delightfully, the early motors kept the spirit of the timing belt catastrophic failure alive and liked to chew through their chain guides. Also delightful is the fact that the chains are on the back of the motor, so out she has to come. I chuckled when I read in one of your posts "Step one: Remove engine" from the Mercedes shop manual. A good friend and I had a hearty laugh when replacing the timing belt on his RS 6, because so, so many procedures on the RS 6 started with just that phrase. Thankfully, starting with the FSI 4.2 V8s (like in the S5), the chain guide issues were addressed, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.

I recently added a new Silverado to the mix as a thank-you gift to myself for driving the S5 so enthusiastically through puddles. Or something like that. My first truck, and my first 'Murrican car. So we'll see what comes of this brave new frontier in automotive tinkering.

Europa wrote: BTW, the newer Audi V8s use timing chains now (starting ca. 2004 4.2L). Delightfully, the early motors kept the spirit of the timing belt catastrophic failure alive and liked to chew through their chain guides.

I had a B6 S4 Avant for 9 years (in Nogaro Blue!) -- it's really an amazingly awesome car and engine, especially with the 6MT. Sold it a year ago to a friend of mine, so I still get to see and work on it from time to time. No problems with the timing chains on this one, the internet lore would have you think it's fated to hit every car, but it's really not all that common.

But yes, in general this forum hates Audis. :-)

Two things you have to know about the big Audis (also for some VWs) #1 the engine is completely in front the front axle, which is the complete opposite to what every other car manufacturer believes in when it comes to weight distribution, and #2 you have to remove the engine for most of the problems to be fixed. And the reason for both of these is the famous quattro system, which will inevitably lead to audi's death one day. The reason to put the chains at the back of the engine is the same - to take weight from the front of the car/engine and move it backwards to compensate for the very wrong concept of putting the engine in front of the axle. Which also means the slightest hit in the middle of the front bumper means new radiators... And that is if the massive understeer (caused by the nose-heavy concept) is not enough for you to pass any audi offers.... Is it worth it for the "great" quattro? No thanks for me...

In fact from all the cars I know there is only one I know (besides the VAG models) to put the engine in front of the front axle and that is the Moskvich Aleko... Well may be also Subaru, but at least their engines are flat and no more than two or three cylinders in length (for the H4 and H6 respectively), so not too bad for weight distribution

Subarus are almost delightful to do engine swaps on. I've done three over quite a number of years. Disconnect all the wiring, fuel, vacuum and throttle connections. Remove 4 exhaust pipe bolts and 4 bellhousing bolts and out it comes. No engine mounts. The 4 bangers are light enough that on the last one a beefy friend of the car's owner just reached in and picked it up.

The Audi hate is largely tongue in cheek. For whatever reason there is an abnormally large percentage of Audi owners who think "I can do that!" and dive in and show the world their carnage. I suspect it's because a lot of them use VW's as a gateway drug and working on your own Volkswagen is a time honored tradition. If you can work on a Golf then you can work on an RS6, right? Mercedes doesn't necessarily gentle introduction to the ways of the brand in quite the same way.
Anyway, I'd love to hear more about any Audi projects, after all, they make large powerful wagons and I'm a tool for those.