Respect the Tweed - 1979 Porsche 924

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

Time to break out more weapons of mass destruction!

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

My apologies, I spoke too soon - you and @TED_fiestaHP were right about removing the bolt completely (the book only mentioned loosening it, as I recall). A little wedge action from an old screwdriver and a couple of hits with a punch, and she was free.

Pulled the clutch assembly - other than a little surface rust, it looks decent-ish. Likely original, too. Nothing was stuck together.

Flywheel didn't look too bad, either.

More to come once I get the engine on the stand and tear into it...

In reply to nlevine (Forum Supporter) :

  Some will have a necked down area, all the way around the shaft, this one you will have to insert the assembly just right or the bolt won't go thru.  Of course it might be a while before you get to put it back together.  Looks like a great project, but maybe more work than you planned on.   I bet the door hinges broke after the hinge pin seized, that will be a interesting repair.  I had a hinge where the pin broke into 3 pieces, after much effort I got it all apart.  Then bought a ream and pin to fit the new reamed hole.  McMaster Carr has all that stuff.  Also cobalt drill bits will cut anything.

There was someone on the 924board that worked with an engineer and a machinist to lighten their stock flywheel.  Basically removed material on the back (engine) side with proper chamfers, etc.  They posted the description on the forum somewhere.  Worth a shot since the engine really needs a bit of help to feel more "lively" IMO.

That said, there are a number of similar sized motors that would work as well or better, depending on your fabrication abilities.

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah, there are a number of engine options that folks have talked about on the 924board, each with their own issues:

• Audi 5-cyl: same bolt pattern on the bell housing, but sourcing one could be a challenge, and it's bigger than what came out
• VW 1.8T: need to build my own adaptor to the torque tube (I've seen somebody saw the bell housing off of a VW transaxle, weld a plate to the back, and drill the appropriate holes for the torque tube). Smaller (and maybe lighter?) than the stock engine and capable of good power, but adds some more electronics complexity. Would probably want to upgrade all the running gear as well to deal with the power increase.
• Ecotec - been following @obsolete's thread on the Ecotec-swapped Conquest for ideas. Saw a project on the 924board, or 944hybrids as well, but it involved a ton of fab work that I may not be up for
• Leave it stock - either re-build what I've got (depending on internal condition), or source another one. Certainly the simplest route (and I'm digging the simplicity of the car). It's all about driving a slow car fast, or something like that..
• Or...  Go electric - crazy middle-of-the-night thought. Since I need to drop the gas tank to get all of the sludge out of it anyway, I'm wondering if the driveline from something like a Chevy Bolt could fit up under the rear of the car, in place of the stock gas tank and transaxle, leaving the current engine bay free for batteries. Probably the least-likely outcome, but I do check Copart every once in a while for Bolts that have had trees fall on them :-)

  To keep it simple, one option, original type engine, with a pair of weber side draft carbs.  The original fuel injection might not ever work again anyhow.

In reply to nlevine (Forum Supporter) :

Yup, I have a 79 924 that I threw a BUNCH of bolt-ons at.  Integral cam, Automatic adjusting cam gear (works like a distributor with weights and springs), MSDS ceramic coated header, ITBs, distributorless Ford EDIS ignition and MegaSquirt.

I ditched the ITBs for a single TB and the stock intake in preparation for adding a BAE turbo setup.  The Single TB ran so, so much better than the ITBs ever did.

I have a friend who runs a 931 in ChampCar, LuckyDog, LeMons, etc. (won a Chumpionship with the 931 engine) who converted to 20VT after I told him it was relatively easy to do.  Which it was and I sold my conversion parts to a fellow GRM'er.

1.8T is interesting, but the conversion parts are stupid expensive or requires a good amount of effort to make your own.

Ecotec or K-series would also be interesting along with the LFX V6 for similar reasons.  You'll be on your own with it, but it would be fun when completed.

Electric would freak people out if you used Tesla or similar parts.  I like it.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

Other than a running car, there's literally no measurable gain from going to sidedrafts on a stock 924.  the lack of compression ratio and poor head flow negates the gain from the carbs.

nlevine (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Time to think about engine shopping - easy button is to find another 2.0 NA engine, but that's still a lot of work for 100hp. Given the body history, I have no qualms about making modifications, so I need to do some research about other options and decide whether I want a restored 924, or a 924-shaped something else...

beat-up early 944s are pretty cheap still. May be worth just finding one that's a cosmetic basket case and swap the whole drivetrain, and then you essentially have a 924S (I love my 924S). IDK what special things are involved in that, but can't imagine it's THAT difficult.  Or maybe it is and I'm totally wrong lol. I find that the 944 2.5 is just about right for this car if not a rocket ship.  

Doing the 944 swap into the 924 really is not that terrible.  You do need to use most of the 944 bits and pieces.  I have seen others over on the 924 Special interest group (924.org) swap over suspension and brakes in a weekend. 

Looks like a great starting point.  

Finally got the engine on a stand to start tearing it down

A touch of carbon build-up and crud on the intake side

A bit more crud on the exhaust side (a couple of studs came out with the nuts, but none broke!)

Cam lobes look ok, but I cannot rotate it by hand (feels like the cam bearings are seized)

Then it got ugly when I pulled the head...

Cyl. 4 is at the top and looks really nasty

I had injected similar amounts of Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder when I got the car - this is what I saw when I pulled the head (Cyl. 4 at the top):

Of the four, cylinder 2 looks the best-ish (like, you can actually see some separation between the piston and cylinder wall)

Cylinder 4 looks like a solid chunk of rust

My guess is that the block is toast. Likely the rust goes too deep for any reasonable hope of rebuilding this engine, even with an over-bore (which would require custom pistons anyway). Previous owner said that the car was running when it was parked 11 years ago, but this looks really nasty, even for 11 years sitting with no spark plugs installed.

Off to finalize plans B, C, and D (i.e. choose replacement engine - stock, or otherwise...)

Bore and sleeve it is always an option.

Slow progress on the 924. Still tearing down the engine (really an academic exercise at this point, since I don't expect this engine to ever run again).

Having trouble getting the bolt off of the oil pump so that I can get the crankshaft out. Had my big breaker bar on it with all my weight and it didn't budge. Ran my impact gun wide open on it until my ears were ringing, no dice. Looking for wisdom from the hive mind on other ideas to get it loose. Two of the pistons are seized in the block, which is limiting some movement of the crankshaft.

Time for the wrench with the blue tip, I'd say (lots of heat). 

I agree with the torch idea.

I wonder what Evaporust would do the the rusted pistons.  I typically use it to fix old rusted parts for restoration, but it might do something interesting with this.

...looks like I need to buy a torch setup...

    I wonder if you could find a slightly better engine, this one looks like it could be difficult to do much with.   

      But it might not be as bad as it looks, once you get it apart, a little work with a cylinder hone might clean it up....

They did make stroker kits for the EA831.

I'm not sure you could find one these days, but there are other options:

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=36293

and also:

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=218952#218952

EBS-Racing can get you main/rod bearings (you have to call because they aren't stocked). 

Most of everything else is available via RockAuto, Porsche, etc.

Two tips on the crankshaft bolt (coming from the Honda world, so I'd take them with a grain of salt)::

- Is there a high mass socket available in that size?

- I've been told impacts are more effective when used in repetitive, short bursts, and have seen this first-hand when just blasting it wide open wouldn't get the bolt moving.

Hope that helps!

A little heat, a breaker bar, and a jack handle to extend the breaker bar finally got the bolt off.

Pulled the crankshaft out.

Pushed pistons 1 & 2 out - rings completely collapsed on piston 1; piston 2 looked ok.

Pistons 3 & 4 still stuck. I had poured EvapoRust into the cylinder bores and let it sit for a couple of days. They're cleaner, but I swear the pistons look welded to the cylinder bores. The rods don't even pivot that freely, either. I'm guessing that the engine had a head-gasket failure between cylinders 3&4 which parked it in the first place, and whatever leaked into the cylinders stayed there for 10 years. Maybe even hydro-locked the engine and bent the rods. If there were no hard failures, and it was just parked with plugs out, I would have expected even conditions across all cylinders.

I think any more effort with this engine, short of an art project, will be an exercise in futility. 

I think my best bets at this point are:

• Find another car (924, or 944) with different needs (i.e. mechanically decent-ish) and try to make one good car out of two; seen a couple of 77/78 4spd cars that run on Facebook/Craigslist - might be good home for the 5spd in my car, or my car might be a good home for one of their running engines
• Pull any remaining useful parts off of this shell and send it down the road (or off a cliff); sell parts
• Do an EV conversion - this would be super cool, but lacking a real indoor space in which to work, and knowing my time limitations, this could likely be a "rest of life" project...

In reply to nlevine (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah, the 2.0L isn't worth the effort unless you're into ITB racing or similar where the 2.0L is required.

Just poking around, I found a few interesting things:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/483419609548598  A vintage Windblown turbo converted 924

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/4126011150819281 This looks nice for a potential running/driving car with a 5-speed (the Porsche based snailshell aka G16)

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/252750023059836 Here's a rusted shell that might yield enough drivetrain parts to get yours up and running?

There's also these:

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/d/mattapan-1979-porsche-924/7343337058.html

https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/d/manchester-1978-porsche-924/7348866858.html

https://southcoast.craigslist.org/cto/d/bridgewater-1977-porsche-924/7349102920.html

More info on the Windblown and other vintage turbo conversions:

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=29561

07k

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

I saw all of those, except the Windblown one.. Already have a few inquiries out.

Thank you for helping to enable this endeavor.