Run Away's Challenge Build

oh, I have a related question for you. Do you have any idea how wide the VQ+trans (auto/manual if significantly different) is from the pulleys to the butt of the trans? 

I assume it is very similar to a honda j35 which is a few inches wider than I'd like for my swap idea, but if its easy for your to take a quick measurement I'd appreciate it. 

I'd keep the neon MC and not worry about the slightly longer pedal travel

Love the build.  I can't decide if I love the idea your junkyard has of keeping the cars off the ground or if it would be a PITA at some point.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Good trick with the abs module gutting, I forgot you did that. I had to knock the abs tone rings off the Altima axles to fit the sentra knuckles, but I think the sentra abs reads off the bearing like the 08. The 04 electrics have a VSS on the diff that goes to the cluster, and that shares to the ECU over CAN. There's a chance I could keep that sensor and the 04 cluster with 08 electrics, it might play nice over the 08 CAN system.

If that denso filter is the 88-91 prelude fitment one I'm thinking of, I've got a whole bunch of them in the garage.

​​​​​​In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Unfortunately no oil pressure sensor stock on the 08, just oil temp. When that galley gasket totally blows out you get p0011 and p0021 codes for the variable valve timing system not advancing due to lack of pressure. Car didn't have that, so there's hope. 

Engine width is a big difficult to tell. I can get a better measurement next week when I work on it again. From above it looked around 36". From below I'd say closer to 38"-39".  The oil filter sticks out past the crank pulley. The timing covers  are about even with the crank pulley, which is inside the frame rail. The trans is tucked under the left frame rail a bit

Sorry for the order and formatting, trying to do this mobily.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Awesome, good to hear from a brake expert. What are your thoughts on moving the pushrod down a bit on the pedal to compensate? I guess I should see how it feels first.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Thanks. Personally, I like the racks. They only really get in the way when pulling an exhaust, or sometimes limit transmission removal on a RWD car. They have a loader that is available some days if you need an engine lifted or a car moved, but I generally go on Sundays when it's not running.

Wow, this is an awesome thread with a lot of great work!  I've got an 02/03 Maxima 3.5 in my 1996 I30, and just swapped it from 5MT to 6MT.  When some parts become available later this year I plan on installing an 09-14 Maxima 3.5.  Suffice to say, I like the FWD VQ world!  But this is all heads and shoulders above what I'm capable of doing.  Can't wait to see what this thing is capable of!

with the MAF they like to see laminar flow...easiest way to get that is to move it inward...away from the air source.  The more time between the air inlet and the MAF the more time laminar flow can develop.

I had an issue with my Yaris since my intake pipe is about 10" long and ended up welding in flat air guides right at the beginning of the pipe to help this.  I went from getting codes often to only when I drive very light and calmly.  So essentially...driving semi aggressive is rewarding!

In reply to 95maxrider :

That should be a potent combo, the guys at Nisformance seem to really have the swaps down now. I've seen a bunch of 300whp dyno sheets.

In reply to malibuguy :

Yeah, ideally I'd do it something like my Sentra.

I'm also going to run nitrous, and the internet says to place the fogger nozzle at least 12" from the throttle body. So ideally I need like 30" of room for the intake....

Harvested some rear control arms off the '08. Hoping to use them to make rear and possibly front engine mounts. Unfortunately only the right rear steel arm came out, the left side is seized.

Did an oil pressure test on it too. Spec is >14psi at idle, and >43psi at 2000rpm. This is with engine fully warmed up, fans cycled. 

So not good news. I'll be pulling the timing cover off at least to look at that gasket, once it's out.

I saw a max of about 65psi near redline.

Also did some experimenting with running it without the CVT stuff. Unplugged everything and it refused to crank. Needed the TCM and the main valve body connector plugged in to crank & start. I figured it wasn't seeing the park/neutral signal, so I tried jumping the starter directly with a screwdriver with the ignition ON. Didn't work, and that really pissed off the computer as it refused to crank again, even with plugging everything back in and doing a hard battery reset.

So tonight I brought home a scan tool, jumped the pin in the TCM that give the park signal, cleared codes, and got it to run without any CVT wiring hooked up. ABS and airbag are also unplugged. No limp mode, goes up to redline. According to the service manual, I shouldn't trigger any limp mode with any of the codes I anticipate. The only downside is the lack of speed sensor means it will default the cooling fans to always on maximum. Going to see if maybe I can hook up the front wheel speed sensors and get a working speedo like maschinenbau.

Codes with engine running. Only the ECU, BCM, fuse box (IPDM), and cluster (meter) plugged in. No ABS, airbag, transmission, HVAC, or audio.

How many more lights can I set off?

All set up to tear it apart this weekend.

Visited the junkyard and found a couple other VQ manual Nissans. Probably going to grab some stuff off them this weekend.

'12 Altima coupe with V6 and 6 speed. Had the pimpy red leather seats. Might pull the trans and steal the clutch.

'06 Maxima with 6 speed manual. Unfortunately no helical limited slip in this one, but I still want the clutch and maybe the ECU/engine harness. Fresh in the yard, not much taken off it. I need it to find it's way on to the racking.

June 26th went back to the junkyard, got them to move that Maxima onto the racking for me.

Grabbed the transmission, clutch, flywheel, engine harness, ECU, BCM, immobilizer antenna, the spare tire, and a couple control arms.

Started on pulling the timing chain, but couldn't get the crank bolt out. Gave up on it after I saw how dirty it was inside and how far extended the tensioner was.

Basically all this isn't for the Challenge, just for after challenge or another car.  Paid $250 for everything

Monday June 28 pulled the Neon in and did some poking around. Radiator doesn't fit at all right side up, upper neck is hard into the valve cover

Upside down might have something to start from. Need to figure out how to put a radiator cap in there somewhere. The outlets are pretty much touching.

Sunday July 4th went back to Bucks.  Got myself a group 51 battery from the Mopar/Ford lot for $29.46 CAD budget hit.

Walked over to the import lot and poked around a few VQ35 cars until I found a good one

Timing chain tensioner not very extended at all, it was either changed recently or well taken care of. Also has the newer style guides. I didn't bring an 8mm hex socket to get the one guide, but I did get the other two, along with the tensioner and crank gear.

Grabbed the shifter assembly, accelerator pedal, fuse box, and O2 sensors from the 6 speed maxima as well. My total was $75, $13.38 of that for the timing stuff. So I now have what I need to fix the engine currently in the Neon for just a few bucks.

My collection of VQ swap stuff I'm keeping in the trunk of my VQ Sentra. 2 clutches, 3 flywheels/ECUs/harnesses.

Tuesday July 6th worked on making a front engine mount on the Neon. Using a rear control arm from my '08 Altima coupe donor, the stock '04 Altima engine side bracket, and the stock Neon chassis side bracket. Rough idea:

Half done

July 10th I headed back to the junkyard to get another clutch from a '12 Altima coupe V6 6 speed they had there, but it was gone already. Instead I grabbed that timing guide I didn't have the tools for the previous weekend, and I also snagged the cooling fan relay, fuses, and connectors from a Volvo so I can fix my electric fans on my '98 Chevy K1500 daily driver.

I was charged $10 for all this, but it's not itemized. Not sure how that would work for my budget if I use these timing chains and guides. I'm sure they would not have charged me anything more if I had taken it the week prior, but it might have made the difference between being charged $5 vs $10 this visit. Not looking forward to hammering out the final budget when I've got the car finished.

So with my afternoon unexpectedly free, I pull the drivetrain on the '08 Altima coupe donor back at home.

Some weights. Full drivetrain, engine is missing A/C compressor but still has oil. 684 lbs

Engine alone is 422lbs dressed. Includes manifold, cats, harness, alternator, PS pump, oil, and flexplate. Missing the AC compressor.

Older pictures for reference:

It'll be interesting to see if the '08 engine weights less than the '04. It does have a plastic intake manifold. The real figure will be the powertrain with headers, and the LSD inside the trans. Hoping it's around 580lbs.

The first auto-x event since Covid shut it all down is this weekend, but I'm not signed up. I'm probably going to doing home reno things. Might finish off that front engine mount next week.

Lots of good progress! Your junkyarding prowess is impressive. So is the plan to pull apart the '08 engine to see if you can easily fix the oil pressure? And if that doesn't work, backup plan is to fix the tensioners on the '04 and just run that engine? 

The most likely culprit for low oil pressure is the oil gallery gasket, so hopefully that's all it is.  I never knew so much information could be gleaned from looking at the timing chain tensioner and seeing how far it's sticking out.  Could you elaborate on that a bit, possibly with pictures of what acceptable and bad ones look like?  What is it indicative of, and is replacing the tensioner sufficient or has damage already been done?

Maybe it's already been mentioned and I missed it, but are you a tech at a Nissan dealership?  Your mastery of all these electrical systems is amazing.

I wish the JYs around here  were that good.  Prices have climbed some since I used to go all the time back in the day.  But I did have to get a starter and o2 sensor for my one project a few weeks ago...at essentially the price of 1 new denso sensor.  So not too bad

Have a bit of a backlog of updates to go through, been a while. I should be better at updating things so I can quickly check things at a later date, especially for budget. So prepare for a huge dump of photos - too many? I like photos, but not sure if I include too many.

July 13th 2021 - harvested some bits of metal from scrap subframes at work. Not sure if I can count these at $0 budget or if I have to weight them and assign scrap value since it's from work.

Aug 3rd 2021 - Did more work on the front engine mount. I fulled welded it and installed it around here, but didn't seem to take any pictures.

Aug 5th 2021 - had a 9th gen civic come through work from a bodyshop, got punted in the left rear wheel. Snapped the adjustable upper control arm that was on the car, I saved the peices. Check out how much the tire chewed up the filler neck...which was only available with the tank and included the pump $$$$.

Aug 17th 2021 - -dropped the subframe on the Neon and removed the rear bobble strut bracket.

Aug 24th 2021 - quick mock up of what I want to do for the rear engine mount using that bit of Civic control arm. I'd like to make it adjustable, because clearances are so tight with the hood, inner cv boots to subframe, and oil pan to subframe. I figure if things end up touching under heavy load I can make adjustments to just squeeze things into a happy spot.

Aug 29th 2021 - Took apart the 08 Altima coupe some more to get the dash wiring, exhaust system, and various other bits.

Sept 25th and 26th - My good friend that gave me this Neon shell invited me to co-drive a double header weekend in his '95 ACR sedan. What a sweet handling car, I'm really hoping I can keep some of that after all the changes I'm doing in the front of the Neon. First and only time I managed to race in 2021.

Sept 28th 2021 - Decided to try and cross brakes off the list. Cut the stock neon brake line fittings off,  put on some Nissan fittings and re-flared the lines.  Pretty good success, only forgot to put the fitting on first once and both flares were leak free on the first attempt.

Sept 29th 2021 - Got the evap cannister out of the 08 Altima. Cannister is above the rear subframe, I took a jack and pushed in the trunk floor to sneak it out rather than drop the subframe.

Oct 2nd 2021 - removed the fuel tank from the 08 Altima. Got about $20 of fuel out of it. Bunch of other stuff removed in prep for winter too.

Oct 3rd 2021 - removed the brake line brackets from the 08 Altima so I could secure the brake lines on the Neon.

Oct 9th 2021 - went junkyarding. Mid 2000s hyundai and kias have very similar rear suspension design to a Neon. I wanted the threaded control arms to build motor mounts, but they were seized at the bushing.

Mid 2000s Camry also have this style rear suspension. This one had a full set of sweet 16" BBS wheels but wasn't on rails so I didn't get them.

Found another Camry that was on rails, and some beautiful bastard had replaced all the arms at some point and slathered everything in anti-seize, so it all came apart easily.

Got 5 arms with bolts, a K24 CRV post mount, K24 VTC and cam gears with bolts, and a thrush muffler. Counter guy dinged me at $20 per arm, which I'm still annoyed about.

Did you know Toyota Camrys have spherical bearings in the rear control arms? Odd.

I pulled arms from 2 different car, and the one that was all full of anti-seize had much beefier arms. I suspect they were aftermarket Mevotech Supreme brand, based on the "MS" stamping. OEM on the left, aftermarket on the right.

Oct 12th 2021 - tried to figure out how to route the brake hoses and attach the brake hard lines in the wheel wells. After a bit of fiddling the right front line just broke.

There's not enough line to try and flare again, so I'm probably having to make new lines.
I know there's a budget exemption for replacing questionable brake lines, but I think for the fronts I'll have to take the budget hit as the line I would be putting in isn't a direct stock replacement due to the different fitting.

I may end up using that rule to replace the lines going to the rear though. They're not looking too great.

The brake lines kinda killed my motivation to work on the car so I didn't really touch it for about 7 weeks. Oct 20th I drove the Prelude to work and parked it next to the Neon.

Nov 20th 2021 - helped my Neon buddy put his R/T back together. This car used to have a Stratus 2.4 with a turbo kit built in the mid 2000s with an FMU. Around 10 years ago I helped put it on Megasquirt. That engine got blown up and it sat for about 5 years trying to get an SRT4 motor swap running but there was issues with the different crank signal.  So in the interest of just getting it going again, it got the 2.0 DOHC out of my Neon. We got it running, just need to get the base fuel pressure dialed back in with some fresh fuel. He's got a long tube header on order for it, I'll probably weld that up in the spring.

I should tell him to write up a receipt to trade this Neon shell for all the work I've helped him with and free up some budget....:p

Nov 30th 2021 - got some motivation to look at the VQ Neon again and started making the engine side bracket for the rear engine mount.

Your ingenuity never ceases to amaze me, great job!  That Prelude is beautiful, what's the story on that?  And those are some pretty welds :)

In reply to 95maxrider :

Thanks man, I really don't feel like I have any idea of what I'm doing. But that's the beauty of the challenge, it forces you to try things out. More Prelude info is in this thread.

Dec 6th 2021 - Pressed out the bushing on the broken half of the Civic control arm. Added some more gussets to the rear engine mount.

Dec 7th 2021 - Brought the car in after sitting 2 months. Winter has been in full effect for a while now.

Cut the bushing sleeve off, prepped the snapped threaded bit for welding. I'm using a little 110V welder, .023" wire, and extension cords so my trick for everything is to pre-heat with the oxy-acetylene.

Made it about 2 seconds into the weld and ran out of wire. Remember that big 10lb spool I had bought about a year ago? I got the adapter to run it on my little welder, but my dumbass left it on my bench for a while and the top side got all rusty.

I un-would a E36 M3load of wire until I got most of the outer layer off. Re-heated the work and finished the weld. Turned out okay for what I have, should be strong enough. This joint will be under compression while accelerating.

Installed

Just have to make some tabs off the subframe and it should be done.

Dec 10th 2021 - Harvested some more metal from another junk subframe.

Dec 11th 2021- Back to the junkyard! Buddy needed some parts for his Hyundai and I tagged along. Found this Sentra SE-R non spec V (automatic 2.5).

 
It had a nice big velocity stack intake/maf adapter with a big filter. I think it might be Stillen brand. I also grabbed one of the wheels to complete the set of 3 I bought last year.

Counter guy only charged me for the wheel/tire, $50. My buddy got the pictured intake duct, a VSS, and some timing cover bracket for $10.

I don't think I'm going to end up using the 17" wheels for the Challenge, it's difficult to fit the larger diameter tires. My current plan is to make two wide 15" 4x114.3 steelies out of a set of four. So if I use that air filter/Maf adapter, I'll have to budget it as a parts lot or something. Not sure how that works.