Very nice! Excited for more updates.
I got promoted at work so my Accord is no longer going to be a daily driver (I got a work truck as my DD now) so I am going to keep the Accord as a fun car. I have a couple buddies who do autocross so im thinking of building it as an autocross car, but I also have aspirations to build a custom 3.5 or 3.6 motor. Basically a stroked ‘04-06 Acura TL motor, which uses the same block dimensions (and in some cases the exact same block) as larger displacement engines like the ‘05-08 Acura RL and ‘03-05 Acura MDX. The trick is that the 04-06 Acura TL uses a bored out version of the exact same block as the 3.0 Accord (my engine), so any hybrid engine build using the TL block is a direct swap for the Accord. J series engines are basically an engine version of all the big families in West Virginia. They can swap parts without issue.
The issue is If I do this sort of build I’ll be dead last in any autocross competition since I’ll have a custom engine build... in a front wheel drive 3300 lb chassis. But it would be so fun to drive! So who knows what I’ll do.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
That's interesing about the V6's, I didn't know that about the family. I knew they were all related but didn't know how closely, and when you get to V6's there's always the issue of intakes and what not fitting properly in the V's. My Cadillac was about 8lbs per (crank) hp. And it was silly. If I could keep my car to 3k lbs that means that I would only need 375hp at the crank to be in a similar spot which seems entirely reasonable with some iteration of the V6. Because of this, I encourage to do something silly with your car so I can follow along and replicate it sometime in the future. 
Also, the little battery survived the summer wonderfully unhooked in the garage. It was at 13.4V when I lowered the car off the lift. Started right up. It's very happy. I need to instruct at a Porsche autocross in a few weeks so I'm leaving the stickers on until then at least.
10lbs per hp is where things start to get interesting. 8lbs per hp is fun, under that is quite entertaining.
My R is probably around 9lbs per hp and my 911 is around 7lbs per hp. The 911 is a hooligan, I love it!
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
That's amazing that the battery is fine. What kind of battery is it again? I think you mentioned in way back in the thread but I can't recall and... well you've got 41 pages of thread so far and that's a lot of searching. Did you have to put different terminals on it?
J series engines are definitely cool because there's so many different options. If you ever went J series you'd have to source a 6 speed transmission and that would be the only issue as they aren't cheap. $800-1600 depending on which tranny you pick up, and they are fairly hard to find as well. Acura TL trannies have the LSD and so does the '03 Acura CL-S. None of the Accords ever came with an LSD.
375 horses at the crank is indeed doable with the J series. With the 6 speed transmission, J series engines experience about 12-15% drivetrain loss. 375 hp at the crank would equal around 320-330 at the wheels, and guys with 3.6 builds have hit that number. However, that's with some serious head porting, full custom 3" exhaust with no cats, ported manifold and runners, big bore throttle body, and a custom intake. Maybe a lighter flywheel too. Also, at that power range, you'd need upgraded axles, solid engine mounts, and burn through the OE clutch a lot faster. 300 whp isn't too hard with a j series build though and if I do one that'll be my goal.
There aren't a lot of forced induction options out there unless you go custom.
Personally, I'd just turbo your k24 if I were you and trying to do something crazy. there's plenty of kits out there and its not that hard to do, and the k24 is a solid engine that takes to boost pretty well, and easy and cheap to replace if you need to.
Why haven't you tried to bump power a bit yet with your car? The tsx intake manifold is a direct bolt-on and is supposed to make quite a difference...
NickD
PowerDork
8/9/19 3:35 p.m.
docwyte said:
10lbs per hp is where things start to get interesting. 8lbs per hp is fun, under that is quite entertaining.
My R is probably around 9lbs per hp and my 911 is around 7lbs per hp. The 911 is a hooligan, I love it!
Yeah, 9lbs per horsepower is a good place to be. That's where I am with my Miata at 2251lbs with 245whp.
Well, kid#1 took the Fit off to college today, kid#2 is dailying the Volt to high school, that means that the Accord is back to being my daily. Little kids like the One Lap stickers, dislike the two door thing, and HATE the brake noise. Even I'm getting sick of race car brake squeal in the car rider line. With that I ordered what seems to be Wilwood's gentlest streetiest compound, Polymatrix Q. Also, it sounds like a mid 70's sci-fi book, which is a nice bonus.
Rotated tires front to rear as well. This the first time I've had the wheels off since before One Lap and the inside shoulders and a bit thin on the front. Swap stuff around and should be good for another 10k? Maybe? Test drive says the brakes are quiet so far and we're back to dad car life which is where the Accord excels.
those tires will last forever with a rotation.
Full page in the October 2019 GRM is about as peak famous as any Accord could ever hope for.
you ball pretty hard for a nice guy...
spacecadet said:
Just got home, today was a good day.
Todays goal: Test Hazmat in near stock trim against the Traccord in OLOA trim.
Short version: on today's autox course hazmat was slower. It may not always be slower but the traccord transformation works. The double wishbones are very good with minimal mods.
Long version: We knew going in Hazmat was faster on paper.. But would that translate to the autox course today.
The autox course today had a large 90 degree sweeping turn and a 180 degree sweeping turn both with speeds 45+mph. This is important.
I started my day with 2 runs in hazmat. Got aquainted with the course and the flow. Lots of pinch places and while not a bad course it certainly wasn't one that had good flow. It violated a couple of big rules in the course design book and this played to the advantage of the Traccord. Hopped into the accord on my 3rd run and Immediately was all over the place because it has to be driven totally different than Hazmat and I'd forgotten that. The diff becomes really obvious when you can back to back against a car without one. So after botching the first half of the course I go into the first sweeping corner at speed and I can immediately tell the difference. Hazmat's advantage begins to erode the moment i leave the previous element. Without camber Hazmat starts to scrub. The diff does a good job pulling back but the tires are definitely not happy. Where in the accord I'm able to keep accelerating into the next element and the offsets scrub a lot less speed because the traccord can flow better through them and into the big sweeper which is where Hazmat officially trips over itself and falls on its face to the Traccord. Hazmat hits the top of 2nd near the begining of the sweeper.. and I'm stuck there.... shift to 3rd and I lose power and fall out of VTEC and I'm fighting tire scrub without my power advantage. Staying in 2nd I'm still fighting tire scrub cause the whole car is haunched over and beating the front outside tire into submission... Meanwhile in the same element the Traccord continues to accelerate alllll the way around the sweeper into the final mini slalom and damage done hazmat is like a half second slower.
If the start of the course had elements further apart I could have opened enough speed advantage to beat the Traccord.
But the Traccord does exactly what Seth intended for it to do. It is slow, but holds momentum very well because it has a favorable camber curve with the double wishbones.
Now I kinda really want to find an accord shell and stick all hazmat's guts in it.. Cause the chassis just works beautifully.
Also the extra size makes packing the car a lot easier. I jammed 4 wheels and tires, 2 race ramps, compact spare and tools, small bag of clothes, oil drain pan/container. Floor jack and tool bag. And I only maintained the use of the passenger front seats, But just barely because i had 2 tires riding in the backseat behind me and the race ramps jammed behind the passenger seat with all the other gear in the trunk.
So good weekend. But Camber is my #1 thing on the list now, followed by an intake and a tune to drop the VTEC engagement point. if i had camber today it would have made a huge difference and the VTEC was always right on the bubble of falling out. Seth and I both battled it all day.
Quoting the above post from Spacecadet because he typed it out better than I did. Funny that I started this whole project because I did One Lap in a CivicSi and now Spacedet is on the road to prepping his CivicSi because he did One Lap in my Accord. I'm mostly happy that for the briefest of times the Accord is faster than the Civic. I don't expect that to last.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
It could last, if you add power. That’s a rabbit hole, but it’s a fun one, particularly since your chassis is already so well sorted.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
the following was my response of "what the traccords needs next" in the spacecadet's thread...
Yes, a diff and an extra cog in the box would make a big difference. But, those two things plus an extra 80hp would be real nice
although, down that way monsters lie
A J series engine and 6 speed weighs in around 550lbs. Your current k24 engine and trans weighs a bit over 400 lbs.
you could also think about the k24a2 from the tsx with a k20 6 speed lsd trans. that would be a pretty compelling combo that wouldn’t mess up your weight distribution.
Right now the car is a shining example of peak Honda. Autocross prep involves taking out floor mats and putting on my helmet. I didn't even adjust tire pressures. Track prep is only slightly more involved with changing to track pads and bleeding fresh fluid into the brakes. Other than that I just drive the kids to school and get groceries. Accord stuff. I'm not sure I want to give that up yet.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
Haha. I see we both had the same thought. I’m going about mods the opposite of Seth, adding power and an LSD to my accord while the suspension is still rotten. He’s got the chassis dialed in so well it just makes sense to bump the power at this point.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth : see I don’t think you have to give that up in order to bump power. You don’t have to stick a custom k series turbo at 30psi to increase power lol. Just a regular NA tsx engine with the better cams and higher flow heads that come with that engine, plus an intake exhaust and a tune will net you somewhere in the neighborhood of 220 whp - at least 60 more than you have now - while maintaining the same reliability and driveability you have now. J series is more involved but still maintains the driveability.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
The issue is that the 2003 cars are the older cable throttle versions. From an electronics standpoint it's not just plug and play as far as I can tell. An 05 car would be a different story. I didn't know that when I bought mine.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth : huh. I did not know that either. Well that’s not great. I believe the 04-05 tsx was cable throttle, and they switched to dbw either in 06 or 07. So those older engines may be an option.
J series I’d think you could just swap in the j series ecu and wiring harness along with the engine and trans. But that’s a lot of work and parts.
I'd be concerned with the extra weight of the J. That torque sure is nice though.
Number1Gaza said:
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth : huh. I did not know that either. Well that’s not great. I believe the 04-05 tsx was cable throttle, and they switched to dbw either in 06 or 07. So those older engines may be an option.
J series I’d think you could just swap in the j series ecu and wiring harness along with the engine and trans. But that’s a lot of work and parts.
Interestingly, the 05 TSX I have has a cable throttle that goes to a TPS sensor and a spring loaded hinge. It seems to be a translator for the electronic throttle body that is on the engine. Must have been a change late in the development cycle where a pedal with a position sensor wasn't ready for the car yet.
Seth, you still running the twinkle-little-battery? Has it stood up ok to daily use?
In reply to TVR Scott :
Not even the slightest hint of a problem. Fires up every day and drives the kids to school. It's been a hot late summer so the heat doesn't seem to be an issue. We'll see how things go as we get into the fall. On One Lap we had one morning below freezing and things were sluggish. Crossing my fingers that I don't have to swap to a bigger battery to make it through the mild Texas winter.
For a while I've had a tensioner pulley whine. It's mild. I ignored it. Daily driver stuff. About a week ago I fired the car up to take kids to school and the noise was much louder and the battery light was on. Huh, guess it's not the tensioner pulley. Shiny new alternator is finally in after the worlds slowest shipping. Pro tip, you can unbolt the alternator as it sits, but you can't get it out of it's spot without unbolting the power steering pump and flopping it out of the way. It's just two more bolts, easy peasy.
Back to tip top shape and seemingly ready to head off to the Challenge in a few days.
Nice of Honda to put the alternator in a place you can get to. Unlike my Focus, where it's tucked up next to the firewall...
In reply to slowbird :
Helps that it's a V6 engine bay holding a four cylinder. The K motors are quite a lot tighter in Civics.
