The v6 6 speed sedan Traccord

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

Thanks for the notes.  Swapping in longer studs is what I'm worried about.  Acura makes it a particular pain in the rear to swap out studs if forums and YouTube are any indication.  

I did some measuring today.  I need 4.1mm spacers to clear the calipers.  So I ordered 5mm spacers, planning to maybe shave a half a mm off the knuckle mount and half a mm off the side of the caliper and hopefully I'll have enough clearance where even if I really abuse the car around a corner and get hub flex there still won't be rim and caliper contact.

 Also, really hoping with just 5mm spacers I can get away with not installing extended studs, at least for now.  I'll count turns and make a judgement call once they come in.  Once I start hitting the track I'll for sure need ARP extended lugs but right now I really just want to drive the car, which means dumping the absurd 1" spacers.  

In reply to Number1Gaza :

Rear isn't bad. The front requires pulling the hubs apart. 

thanks to irish44 and bluej (iirc)... the rears went in ok.

I had to run out and get a bigger drill bit to drill an access hole in the rear brake dust cover... thing.  That gave us a way to knock the rear studs out without dissembling things [and then feed in the new stud].  I'd get you a picture of where we put the hole... but I'm physically an ocean away from the car. 

I didn't get a chance to take a picture of it in-process... but you can see how it all went down from page 20-23 of this thread:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/sleepyhead-bobzilla-and-john-welsh-do-onelap2018/136470/page20/

with the rear studs going in on page 21.  also, looking at that, the +35et genesis wheels on 15mm spacers only poked 3/4" on the TL.  Dunno if/how that matches up on an accord.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

Oh yeah, I have read through that thread before.  One Lap sounds awesome btw.  Maybe one day when my kids are older...

Looks like you just swapped out the rear lugs for extended ones and didn't run a rear spacer, and used 15mm spacers with built-in lugs in the front? 

Front lugs are the ones that are the issue swapping in extended versions.  I'm not going to take apart the whole knuckle/hub assembly right now.  There's gotta be a hack that skips that step, right?
 

There isn't. You can knock the studs out but you can't get them past the knuckle. I tried literally every possible permutation of movement and wiggle and it just doesn't work. The hubs aren't bad to press apart. The hardest part is usually getting the half shafts out and yours are freshly installed so should come apart easily. I put in very good very expensive studs because I only want to do it once. Part numbers are somewhere in the Traccord thread. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

So you couldn't just cut them once they are pressed somewhat out?  ...but then I guess the issue would be getting the new ones in if the hub is still in the way. 

In reply to Number1Gaza :

It's worse. The new ones are even longer and so fit less. 

Over the last couple of days, I got the TL 20mm rear sway bar swapped over with moog end links, and I installed the coilovers.  

Here are the TL sway bars, compared:

Lower bar is 2008 TL-S 20mm bar, upper is 2003 TL-S 19mm bar.  

Despite only 1mm difference in diameter, the 20mm bar is WAY stiffer than the 19mm.   No actual data, but when I stood them up next to each other and put my weight on one end, the 19mm bar flexed quite a bit.  The 20mm bar had very little flex at all.  I can't imagine that's all due to just the 1mm of extra thickness.  I know the 20mm bar is solid, maybe the 19mm bar is hollow?  Google isn't much help figuring that out and I don't want to cut up my 19mm bar to find out.  Maybe the shape differences (19mm bar is more of a bow shape) contribute?  not sure.  all I know is that the new bar is a lot stiffer.   

End links:

Probably don't need a note on which ones are on the car now... 

Here's how I mounted the front coilovers so that the strut tower brace can bolt in:

No drilling necessary.  All I did was bang out 2 of the strut tower brace studs in each of the coilover top hats with a hammer.  The 3rd stud lines up perfectly with the hole in the Accord strut tower.  

Here's how the car sits now:

First and probably only sticker I'll ever put on my car.  

I didn't take measurements of before and after ride height, but I'd guess I've lowered the car 1.5" all around.  I don't know how much lower I want it.  I can mess with that after I get a chance to drive it for a while, but I kind of like it the way it is.  

Driving notes:  

To say that these parts transformed the car would be a wild understatement.  The car has the same bones, same driving position, but it genuinely does not feel like the same car.  The stock 15 year old suspension was clearly worn out, and it's sloppy to begin with.  The higher spring rates and better damping were desperately needed.  Car genuinely handles like it's on rails now.  And that rear bar!  it almost might be too much for the back end.  I got rid of the rear spacers while I was at it so I've got 40mm more front than rear track right now.  Once I go down to 5mm front spacers it may help to balance the car a bit more.  It feels a hair oversteery, but the limits of the car are more than I can test on public roads, and I'm not exactly a rule follower when it comes to public roads either.  That's how much it's improved.   Body roll is straight up gone, and there is SO. MUCH. GRIP.  Michelin super sports certainly don't hurt that cause.  

I think I can also comment on the steering rack and engine changes now that I've put 30 miles or so on the car.  The steering rack is heavier, but quite a bit quicker.  I may need to bleed it some more, I may just need a new power steering pump, and I think axing those big front spacers will help the heaviness too.  But the quickness is such a welcome change.   Bigtime improvement.

I may have an exhaust leak that is contributing to lower torque below 3500 rpm, because the car actually feels more sluggish at low RPM.   I may also have exceeded the capabilities of the stock j30 ecu with all the extra air I'm flowing. But once 4000rpm is crossed, the car absolutely screams.  Definitely a vtech improvement with the new cams.  

Lightweight flywheel is definitely an improvement, but a little more subtle than I thought it would be.  It's easier to heel-toe for sure with the increased engine response, but it doesn't feel like a dramatic change.  The car isn't great with heel-toeing anyway because of the pedal placement.  I need to bring the gas pedal more in line with the brake pedal.  Always more mods...

I've gone long with my descriptions, but to say I'm happy... yeah.  I feel like the car is finally what I thought it could be.  

Three things. 

1. Good lord that battery is huge. 

2. Honda should have built a hot rod Accord. One could argue that's what the TSX was, but, bah, they should have built a hot rod Accord. 

3. I want to drive it. Preferably back to back with my car. Around cones. Or a track. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Three things. 

. 

3. I want to drive it. Preferably back to back with my car. Around cones. Or a track. 

We should make sure my car is there for that too, even if I'm not.

Number1Gaza said:

Here's now the car sits now:

That is damn  sexy

That looks good man.. 

i hate tracklites myself, but the car sits great. I'm happy for you man and I'm genuinely impressed. 

 

Thanks for all the nice comments guys.  Means a lot.  I have to say, I do like the way the car looks now.  I've never really cared about it, how it drives always comes first,  ..and second, and third.  But the traklites do look nice with less fender gap and the color works too, which I wasn't sure it would.  Bronze and carbon bronze pearl are awfully similar.  
 

Seth, I'd love for you to drive it, and I'd love to drive your car too.  Maybe one day.  It would be a super interesting comparison.  The TL thrown in would be another great wrinkle.  
 

Mods are far from finished but I feel like from here out it's going to be more fine tuning than big projects.  Famous last words? 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

As has been covered in both our threads, the parts bin was all there to make a hot rod Accord.  An Accord Type R if you will.  Maybe they felt like such a car would intrude on Acura's market position?  That'd be my guess.  
Anyway, making my own has been more satisfying.

I drove the car around a bit today.  Still needs an alignment, and the 5mm eBay spacers still haven't arrived.  Annoying since estimated delivery was last week.  I can't help driving it though, even just for short laps around town.  It's so different.  
 

I determined one thing:  I am never deleting the rear seat.  I removed the whole rear seat assembly when I installed the rear coilovers.  Turns out that the back seat is the only sound insulation between the rear tire wells and my ears.  Without the seat, every rock ping in the back wheel wells sounds like it entered an echo chamber directly behind my head.  Taking into account the gutted trunk, that's pretty much exactly what is happening.  With the seat installed though the sounds completely disappear.  Almost magical.  So the rear seat stays.  I'll have to come up with other weight loss lambs to sacrifice. 

Well there she is, in my driveway, finally drove her home.  The Accord Type S.  I've decided to name her.  Not quite a Type R, it would need a J35 to be a Type R.  

Backing up a bit, one ebay cancellation and an Endless RPM sale later, a pair of 5mm spacers finally arrived yesterday.   Hub-centric, forged aluminum, nice  product.  I was quite impatient to see how much of my wonky suspension and steering issues were due to the 20mm spacers, and I also wanted to see if 5mm allowed the wheels to clear the calipers.  Once installed:

Not much clearance, but they work!  I didn't shave the caliper.  Looks like a bit over 1mm when all is said and done so I should be ok.  
 

Lugs:  I got 6.5 turns out of them.  Not great, but enough to drive it.  
 

Test drive:  yup all my suspension issues were due to those absurd spacers.  Steering effort is less, vibration around 60mph is gone, hunting feeling is minimized.  Car drives great!  Except for that stupid alignment. 

Alignment alignment.  All the shops in the area are booked.  Seems like people not going anywhere for 3 months has created a lot of demand for car repairs.  Anyway, I ended up spending a couple of hours performing the most ghetto alignment possible, since I couldn't find string, bungies, or 2 levels at the work shop.  I aligned both front tires as close to zero toe in/out... by eyeballing them.  Then i took the car for short test drives and just kept bumping the tie rods a quarter turn until the steering wheel was centered and the car didn't pull off center.  Eventually I got it pretty darn close, called it good and drive it home.

it drives pretty good all things considered.  It needs a real alignment.  It's still down on power in the lower rpm's.  The stage 3 clutch is hard to modulate in street driving at low speeds.  The power steering is still not working, although the rack seems fine, pretty sure the junkyard power steering pump is the issue.  And the coilovers, while firming up the handling without a doubt, need some work.  Spring preset, damping adjustment, ride height, all variables that need to be adjusted.  
 

Still it's awesome.  Front brakes are amazing, zero fade.  Handling is wildly improved.  Rack and pinion is nicely quicker.  Clutch grabs like it's supposed to, I even get a very solid 3rd gear chirp at WOT, which I've never experienced before in this car.  Once the kinks are worked out I think it will be great.  
 

Long time since my last update.  Long story short, I got another promotion at work and have had the joyous privilege of traveling to bumberkeley Egypt central Florida for work for a project over the last several months.  No pay raise either because Covid.  "Congrats, you get to keep your job!"  I can't even complain either given the status of many others I know.  
 

Anyway, work policy means that I can't be at my South Carolina home terminal after being in Florida, a covid hotspot, unless I quarantine for 14 days.  And my car is stored at my home terminal.  So I haven't seen my car in 2 months.  Looks like I'll get back there within a month or so and can actually do some more work on it, and get it ready for  a yet to be determined track day.  Still need probably $1000 in parts and maintenance for a real track day so selling all the rest of the TL Type S parts I have laying around needs to happen as well.  Very hard to sell parts when they are in storage at a place you can't visit.

Over the last week, some progress has finally been made.  I'm back at my home terminal, and I started selling some parts. Then, out of the blue, my wife says, "I want to take a trip by myself for my birthday.  Your car is ready to drive, right?"  (She isn't allowed to drive my work truck, and I need the mini van if I'm staying with all the kids).   Uhh, yeah for sure honey!  *thinks feverishly of all the things that could go wrong*
 

long story short, I got an alignment, worked on the suspension a bit, and drive it about 100 miles to ensure it would be ok with my wife at the helm for a 200 mile excursion (1 way).  Today is her birthday, and she just called me to tell me she made it to the hotel, so, so far so good. 

Once I get it back, hopefully in one piece, I need to do something about front camber, which is literally positive right now.  I can't lower it more without rolling the fenders.  I'll probably have to spring for some skunk 2 adjustable upper control arms.  Driving agressively right now just wears the outer sidewalls of the front tires and results in pure early onset understeer.  

Long time between updates.  2 Covid quarantines (didn't actually catch it), crap weather and a Christmas budget crunch means car stuff has been on the back burner.

 However, yesterday I picked up the long-needed Skunk2 front upper control arms, used on flea bay for $180, not a bad deal.

And, a recent junkyard excursion netted me an Accord Hybrid front bumper beam, which I will replace the Miata plastic beam with.  If I'm going to make a front splitter I need to attach the splitter mounts to the bumper beam, and the plastic Miata beam won't work so well for that.  Slow progress, but progress.  I'm actually going to break out the wrenches this week. 

So this is kind of funny. I've got the exact same car and in the exact same color. I live just up the road from you and I graduated from Lexington High school in 2003.

I found this thread late last night while searching google for 'acura TL front aluminum control arms' or 'acura TL aluminum front knuckles'. 

I've got a lot of info to add, but I want to make sure that I first read through all of your thread.

Edit: Okay this is going to take too damn long if I read everythign and then go back and make sure that I'm not answering something that hasn't already been answered. So if I'm answering something that's already been answered, I apologize in advance.

Number1Gaza said:

Couple things I learned from the swap: 

Stock 6-6 sedan hood appears to be aluminum.  We pulled it off the car and I was quite surprised by how light it was.  I believe Seth said the hybrid hood he got from the junkyard for his Accord was 18 lbs, and that's about what I estimated my hood to be. 
 

The stock trans mounts are absolute crap. The top mount is ok but the design appears to be prone to tearing.  I think I'm going to fill mine with poly when I get a chance.  The lower mounts have an absolute ton of play.  They're barely doing anything down there.  Complete garbage.    I need to figure out a way to stiffen them.  The Acura TL-s 6mt front lower mount from '07 - 08 is a much better design and bolts right up but it's not cheap, like $70 for one mount.  

I confirmed that the J32a3 is 100% identical to the j30a5.  Literally everything is the same except that the cylinder bore is 89mm not 86, so you can't swap the pistons or head gaskets but that's about the only thing in the whole darn engine that isn't the exact same.  
 

The other thing I noted was something I already knew, but after doing a full engine swap I can confirm:  the design of the Honda J series is on point.  It's gotta be the easiest v6 to work on ever made.  Everything is pretty easy to get to, very logically designed, really nothing at all aside from the precats makes me scratch my head and say 'what the hell was honda thinking?' (And I know what they were thinking with the precats, they had to have them for emissions).  The engine has gotten some love over the last few years, particularly now that there are so many of them hitting junkyards at stupid cheap prices, but I for one have nothing but good things to say.

 

 

They're definitely steel. If yours is aluminum, you are lucky and someone else has replaced yours. Part numbers are below.
https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~hood~engine~60100-sdr-a90zz.html

https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~hood~engine~60100-sdb-a90zz.html

I switched from the Accord lower transmission mounts to the TL style. I am also in the process of switching over to the TL subframe, which is aluminum and about 21 lbs lighter than the steel ones on our Accords. You can use any TL subframe except 2007-2008 auto trans subframe. If you get one of those you have to grind off one of the brackets that the 07-08 automatic trans uses. I am also installing the rear TL engine mount bracket thing, as it has some cute little dampener on it.

Steel Accord Subframe

Aluminum TL subframe. 

mr2s2000elise said:

The GM Synchromesh do you guys recomend it for Integra 5 speed, or just the Accord V6 manual trannies?

Use conventional 10w30.

That's pretty wild you are right down the road from me with the same car!  
 

Yeah, you are correct that the 6-6 stock hood is steel.  It's lighter than most steel hoods I've lifted, but I found an aluminum accord hybrid hood at a junkyard (unfortunately with a giant dent in it) and it was feather light.  Probably 10 lbs lighter than the steel one.  
 

I wanted to swap out my subframe for a TL aluminum one but, eh, the weight is way low in the chassis and it's a lot of trouble for 20 lbs once I figured out my donor car subframe was bent and I'd have to find another one.  
 

I need to get some aluminum rear knuckles from either an Accord hybrid or a TSX.  I have a seized caliper in the rear, so I may as well upgrade.   
 

Final note, we were talking about manual trans fluid, not engine oil in that quote you referenced.  But for engine oil, I actually swapped to synthetic oil because for track use, it holds up better.  

Well I'll be following this. 2004 Acura TL 6-speed here. Just installed Megan racing coilovers (well, on the fronts. Still need to do rears and professional alignment) and I like them a lot. 
Time to do the resonator delete for me lol 

In reply to Number1Gaza :

I've got Accord Hybrid rear knuckles/brakes. If you get those, you'll have to swap out the ABS / VSA unit with one from a 2006-2007 Accord Hybrid. I've also got the Hybrid from bumper beam (6 lbs lighter).

I've got my own prototype transmission in mine. First of its kind. I spent over a year reverse engineering just about every Honda / Acura manual transmission and I figured out a bunch of stuff. I have a close-ratio setup that is centered around FK8 Civic Type R 3rd gear. Its got a tigther gear spread from 2-3-4-5-6 than FK8. My gearing is almost identical to the 1st gen NSX 6-speed manual transmission. What I did is sorta similar to what Spoon did with the K-series. Except mine is better because I had mine available before the FK8 setup and I didn't need to have the prestige and fanciness or MONEY that Spoon has, all I needed was to be pissed off at my ex girlfriend hahahaha 'MERICA!! 
https://honda-tech.com/forums/transmission-drivetrain-127/bensebuilt-close-ratio-j-series-trans-also-applicable-k-series-fk8-type-r-3346496/

Since you're using the older block, the best clutch/pressure plate setup to use is the 2018+ Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT oem clutch/pressure plate with flywheel shims that Eric Brockway makes and sells. He's the guy that created this thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/your-ultimate-guide-oem-tl-flywheels-clutches-906678/ The OEM clutch/pp for that model are made by Exedy.



Do you still have any of the parts left over from the Accord transmission? I've been rebuild / sell custom J trans and I'm always in need of cores. Also, the difference between the axles on the 7g Accord V6 6MT vs 3g TL 6MT is that the TL halfshaft has slightly larger diameter outer splines. IMO, its not really worth seeking out. If larger axles are needed I've got a way to run AWD TL / FK8 sized axles anyway. They're 31 splines instead of 29.