BerryBeazly said:Is there a decent mechanic worth his beans that you guys can rely upon?
Lemme see...
<Holds up mirror>
Yeah, there's just one, and he's always super busy. 
BerryBeazly said:Is there a decent mechanic worth his beans that you guys can rely upon?
Lemme see...
<Holds up mirror>
Yeah, there's just one, and he's always super busy.
wae said:Another part that I decided I didn't want to re-use was the timing chain guides. I measured the chain itself when it was all assembled and it was in spec. The tensioner is already brand new.
Ooh, you have a known good, used timing chain? My engine seems to be in good shape, other than coked pistons & valves, so I didn't look too closely at the chain on disassembly. I missed the part in WIS about checking for cam retardation due to worn chain. To put my brain at ease, could you measure the length of the chain (hang it on a nail or pegboard hook and measure overall hanging length)? I have googled and can't find a new length or discard length, only the info about checking cam timing to determine if chain is too worn.
I did manage to get one head cleaned, exh valves lapped, all new seals installed.
In reply to BerryBeazly :
To answer your question in the longest, most circuitous way that I can, I'll start by saying that shopping for and purchasing one of these things was an exercise in hubris. I knew that the dealer parts and labor rates would be astronomical. The indy shops would base their business model on just being not as expensive as the dealer, so their rates would only be sky-high. The stories that I read involved a lot of ancillary systems failing and ringing up very large repair bills, primarily at the dealer. Not realizing that I was only looking at part of the story, I told myself that I could manage to own one of these because when things broke, I would be able to fix it myself! The repairs that were costing people multiple thousands of dollars would only cost me hundreds plus some time on the weekend. In actuality, it was less "I didn't realize" and more "I was consumed by wishful thinking".
My recommendation would be to take advantage of the red-hot used car market and get out while you still can. While it's still running, get someone else to take it on and make sure it's not someone you are particularly fond of. I know that there were some changes made in the 2013 model year, but I don't think the fundamental issues were ever addressed. If you're going to keep it, change the oil no less frequently than every 5,000 miles, do an oil analysis every time to look for bearings starting to give out, and either delete the EGR or route it and the PCV through a catch can. If and when you start to see bearing material in the oil, pull the lump immediately so that you can just do new bearings and rings and clean it out instead of having to repair the crank and risk damage to the pistons, con rods, valves, and block. Oh, and find the timing chain measurement procedure in WIS and follow that periodically to make sure the timing chain isn't getting stretched. You might be in slightly better shape since you'll get the 48 month warranty once you have the AEM performed, but I don't think it covers anything in the bottom end of the engine and that's where the problems really manifest.
As far as a decent mechanic? I'm too cheap for that, so it's just me. See also: hubris.
In reply to FJ40Jim :
"Known Good" might be a little bit presumptive, but there is a test for acceptable timing chain stretch in WIS. I can't remember what the procedure was to measure the deflection since I did that back in, like, 2018 or something, but I followed that and my chain was well within the allowances that they specified. I'll get it hung up on a peg and see what it is next time I'm out there.
Head looks good! How goes the de-carbonization process?
wae said:In reply to BerryBeazly :
To answer your question in the longest, most circuitous way that I can, I'll start by saying that shopping for and purchasing one of these things was an exercise in hubris. I knew that the dealer parts and labor rates would be astronomical. The indy shops would base their business model on just being not as expensive as the dealer, so their rates would only be sky-high. The stories that I read involved a lot of ancillary systems failing and ringing up very large repair bills, primarily at the dealer. Not realizing that I was only looking at part of the story, I told myself that I could manage to own one of these because when things broke, I would be able to fix it myself! The repairs that were costing people multiple thousands of dollars would only cost me hundreds plus some time on the weekend. In actuality, it was less "I didn't realize" and more "I was consumed by wishful thinking".
Well, at least you got a truly epic build thread out of it. I love watching threads where somebody takes on a job even factory trained mechanics won't touch.
Just wanted to offer my encouragement - I can't wait to see it back together and running.
In reply to FJ40Jim :
In reply to wae :
I'm currently in the muck of deleting the emissions system. As a result of the laws of the land here in the USA, i find it increasingly difficult to diagnose codes and errors when trying to delete such systems. I don't have access to the xentry tool and im unsure how id be able to get access without paying $200/hr for some shop to do it. Is there a free resource for these vehicles? A torrent i can download and read codes from my laptop? I don't want to pay the 1o bucks a month for the WIS either.
In reply to BerryBeazly :
Before the settlement was announced, I had planned in having a full delete done. If you go back a few pages, there's some info about a guy from YouTube I think that will do the tunes remotely.
For WIS, I found an ebay seller who had what is basically a virtual machine that's been written to DVDs. Read those in, install VMware player, and now you've got wis and epc. To read the fancy codes, I got a reader off of Amazon for a couple hundred bucks that is specific to MB.
I've heard that you can get a laptop with STAR, but I've not taken that step.
In reply to MadScientistMatt :
Thanks! I feel like it's starting to come together right now, I just need some more spare time to go out and focus on it!
In reply to wae :
Think you'll have it running before the Mini runs?
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Hell, at this rate, I'll just be happy if I have it done by the next presidential election!
Just for funz, the timing chain got hung on a nail and measured. Looks like 910-911mm.
I don't have a metric tape measure. I hung the chain on a peg so that the topmost link was parallel with the floor. From the top side to the top link to the bottom of the hanging chain, I get 35 9/16"
Thanks WAE!
That may be bad news for my chain. 35-9/16"=35.5625" = 903.3mm.
910mm = 35.83"=35-13/16+
I'm gonna go measure chain length from crank to cam & cam sprocket diameter. From there a stretch can be calculated to allow 11* of timing retard.
Edit:
Just walked past DW, "Where you going?"
"To measure the timing chain sprocket diameters so a stretch distance can be calculated to see if the chain has to be replaced."
"Is a timing chain like a timing belt, and gets replaced?"
"Yes, if it's worn, but this one might only be 50% worn"
"Wouldn't it be much easier to just replace it now, if you have this thing all taken apart?"
"Uhh, yeah."
<rolleyes> "So just go order one. Geez."
Ha! Yeah, I don't blame you for that one. I'm also not 100% sure how accurate that measurement is since it's not under tension. If I hadn't checked mine before I did the tear-down, I would probably be replacing it as a preventative measure. That can be a pretty slippery slope, though, given the costs for a lot of those "well, maybe I should replace this just to be safe..." parts. The full timing set with a Febi chain looks to be about $300. Add another hundo for the MB chain. I spent about $70 for the guides and I had already replaced the tensioner back in 2018 when I was troubleshooting the ticking so that's basically "free" by this time.
After measuring the chain last night, I spent a little time checking things out and putting things together and, of course, ran in to a couple more problems. First of all, the seal for the oil pump outlet is not included with the engine block rebuild kit from idParts. That's kind of irritating, and I figure I should probably replace that, since it's a $4 seal that could cause bigger issues. I was also trying to get the remainder of the carbon off of the crank sprocket, but in the process of doing that I managed to take a big ole chunk out of the rubber/plastic that I assume is there to soften the noise of the chain as it spools around. It's a really, really big chunk I managed to knock off and I'm concerned that the chain is going to continue to break bits off and send debris through the lubrication system. There doesn't seem to be a used one anywhere in the US on eBay, but I can get a new one from the dealer for about $150. So, I guess I'm doing that.
But I did get the oil pump bolted back together and the old input seal popped out, the oil cooler put back on, the #1 piston clocked to TDC, and the new timing guides installed. The oil cooler fought me a little bit because there was a ton of crud down in one of the bolt holes which left me with one bolt that wasn't quite seated. After I got that cleaned up and things torqued down (guide pins for the chain guides and the oil cooler bolts are all 12nm or 106 inch-pounds of torque, just for reference), I started to get the heads ready to re-installation, but the wife timer went off at that point and I had to head back home.
I also completely forgot to take any pictures, so you'll have to take my word for it.
The local M-B dealer's website has an "order parts" section and I was able to put the oil pump seal, sprocket, and the two conrod bolts in my cart and start the check-out process. There wasn't an option for just picking it up at the dealer, though, so I'm just going to go over there. I'm going to bet, however, that they're going to try to charge me list price whereas the "order parts online" is showing an acceptable discount off list. So we shall see how that goes....
In reply to wae :
At that point I like to ask the parts counter guy "do you want to sell or not sell parts today"?
Sometimes they dig in and sometimes they'll book it under some random local shop's discount.
In reply to OHSCrifle :
Oh yeah. I'm going to have the online order all queued up on my phone and will have no compunctions prohibiting me from making direct eye contact while tapping the "place order" button.
Fun fact: The chain or timing kit is available 2 ways: with broken chain to be rolled into assembled engine, or with 'continuous' chain, to be installed during rebuild.
Ordered the Febi German timing kit with continuous chain from Eeuroparts for $209.
Finished head #2 today. Lapped exhaust valves, new seals, reassembled valves. Found two intake valves that didn't look like the others, had no MB numbers etched on them. Maybe I am not the first person to have this thing apart, which might explain why certain parts of it look really good.
This is the hi-tech head assembly table that allows doing half the head at a time. To build this you need: 1 workbench or table, and a 42# flywheel. And yes, there is a dog sleeping under there.
Custom adapter to use 1984 K-D valve spring compressor on a modern multi-valve cylinder head. That's high dollar E36 M3 there.
Also started cleaning the piezo injectors. They are installed with grease on them, which over time caramelizes into peanut brittle, gluing the injector into the head casting.
I'm pretty much waiting on a chain kit now. Still have parts to clean to stay busy in the interim.
Not to be too much of a follower here but:
The bolts are only torqued to the second stage - 60nm. My angle gauge or whatever it's called has malfunctioned and no longer turns with the socket, so I need to go replace that before I can do the 3 90 degree steps.
I made a decision to just order the parts from their website and pick them up. I haven't heard that they were ready yet, but I may poke at them if I haven't heard by the end of the week. I figured that all I was going to do is needlessly irritate myself and they'd probably have to order stuff. So this way, I save my annoyance and only have to make one trip.
I am nearing the point where I need to come up with a cam hold down tool, though. The last one I made didn't hold up to multiple uses, so I'll need to do something different this time.
Well, crap. Do we NEED a cam hold down tool set?
Are the stamped metal hold down fingers under the valve cover not sufficient?
Help me, Obi Wae Kenobi.
In reply to FJ40Jim :
Well, WIS says you need those, but I'm not sure if that's needed because there's always a problem or that there is some miniscule chance that there could be a problem in some weird situations.
When I'm back at the shop, I'll look it up again and refresh my memory.
I love how this has become two build threads in one. Godspeed you glorious bastards.
Yeah. Between this thread and the mazduce unicorn thread I'm running far far away from a modem MB. Been shopping diesel SUV's to replace my gmt800 and MB's have surfaced on the radar. Nope. Nada. Ain't happening. What a journey man. Looks like you're well on your way to having it back together.
In reply to Mr. Lee :
It's too late for me, but save yourself!!
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