VeeDub ReDub platform (new project from the DF Goblin guys)

Some of you guys might remember my dad and I from when we posted here long ago with a project that eventually turned into the DF Goblin. We're at it again developing a prototype of our next project: the VeeDub ReDub platform.

Basically it's recreating the old VW Beetle pan and chassis with modern suspension, disc brakes and mounts designed to fit a mid-mounted turbocharged Mk7 GTI powertrain with the dual clutch DSG transmission. The idea with this platform is that a person could combine it with a GTI donor and a classic Beetle body to make a sporty, reliable sleeper Beetle.

The bulk of our work so far has been getting cars to the shop to get dimensions off of so that we could design a chassis to fit under the Bug body while also shoehorning the GTI engine behind the rear seat in the Bug.

We've got the prototype all modeled and are finally making actual parts. This is always the fun part so that's why I haven't shared anything earlier.

I promise to be back with updates on the prototype fabrication process but for now I'll share the renderings of the platform. Let us know what you think and start sending questions our way just like last time. The questions help us hone in on how the project needs to be when it is finalized.

HELL YES. Are you planning on keeping back seat room the same despite the mid-mounted motor?

Are there any replica bodies that utilize Beetle pans which might attach to this chassis that you've looked into or have interest in mating together?  Like a 356 convertible body, as an example, if someone wants to go that way instead of VW Type 1.

Looks neat in 3D, how does the mid-engine configuration figure into the lay-out?

Seems like a waste to squander it in a Beetle body, A Ghia would have MUCH better aero better take advantage of that proposed tech. A Bee4tle might make for a better sleeper, but the aerodynamics are those of the box that it came in . . . 

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Brilliant idea

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

The 356 repro bodies all require a shortened Beetle pan. I had an original '55 Pre-A Porsche body mounted on a shortened '71 VW pan, handled better than the original but got no love at all from the 356 cognoscenti, actual verbal insults honestly.

As a Beetle guy, I think a chassis for a subaru swap, engine and trans, or Engine and Beetle transmission would be a better bet.  Looks and sound of what is known, but better everywhere else

In reply to dculberson :

That has been a major consideration since a lot of guys wanted a back seat in the Goblin. We don't think we can use the stock rear seat but we're going to try to make a thinner (maybe fiberglass) seat back with minimal padding. Think racing seat construction instead of the old-fashioned thick seat back.

In reply to MuSTANK :

My dad is excited about doing this with a Ghia. We haven't had a Ghia in a while so we've been studying images online while developing this platform. We're pretty sure it'll fit so we'll just need to make a slightly different pan. Might require a few other changes here and there but if it can be done, we'll do it.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Definitely. The Beetle pan/chassis worked out very well for so many different kits and custom cars. We're hoping we can do the same with this platform.

In reply to cfvwtuner :

That's the path I had considered when I was working on my Beetle before we started the Goblin. I ended up with a 2276 with dual 44 IDFs and a stock Bug transmission. It was quick but it has been in storage for nearly a decade now.

One idea we plan to pursue is a more "classic" version of the platform. This version would be designed to use the stock engine and transmission with the rest of our platform. We should have enough clearance on that version to still fit a Subaru engine.

We chose to do the mid-engine version first because this will also be the basis for the next version of our Goblin kit car in a year or so.

Wow I love this!!

adoyle88 said:

In reply to MuSTANK :

My dad is excited about doing this with a Ghia. We haven't had a Ghia in a while so we've been studying images online while developing this platform. We're pretty sure it'll fit so we'll just need to make a slightly different pan. Might require a few other changes here and there but if it can be done, we'll do it.

My wife needs this...

Cool idea! You should definitely offered a short wheelbase version for 356, buggy or misc. kit car bodies.

Will this be for a normal Beetle or Super Beetle body?

I love the chassis. But the "two donor" recipe seems a bit complicated.

As a buyer, I "would" be interested if I already had a beetle body sitting around'; the VW GTi bit is not THAT hard to find. 

I would be a lot less interested if I had the GTi drivetrain sitting around looking for a future; decent Beetle bodies are like Unicorn poop.

That said, y'all seem to have done OK with the first venture, so do carry on!

Pete

Can you still just open up the JC Whitney catalog and order nearly an entire VW Bettle body?

Kool!  

I just had a thought.  (Scary, I know.)  What are Mexican Beetles going for these days?

In reply to SpeedAddict502 :

This first version will only fit the Beetle but we'll get a Super Beetle in to design around as well. Our dirt track car was a Super Beetle so we've kept that version in mind.

In reply to NOHOME :

I might be misunderstanding what you are saying but it sounds like you think that people wanting to build a Beetle will not want to use our platform to build their Beetle because they can't find a Beetle? This first version of our platform is intended for guys wanting to build a Beetle, not guys that happen to have a GTI powertrain laying around. The guy wanting to build a Beetle will find a Beetle, some way or another.

Based on our search for a Beetle for this project, they aren't as rare as you think. Sure you aren't going to find a pristine Beetle for a good price but I think anyone using a 50-60 year old car body expects to do some bodywork. This guy near us had at least 12 usable Beetles in his backyard. It seems there are people across the country that hoarded the Beetles back in the day.

We do know some guys flat out won't want a Beetle body so that's why we are calling it a platform. We're hoping to work with other companies to make other bodies fit. Many guys in this thread have already started mentioning the possibilities.

In reply to Noddaz :

We had the same thought. In Texas and Arkansas we see "IN TOW" vehicles heading back to Mexico all the time. We wonder if they could bring Beetles up when they come to get Copart cars from up here. Not sure if bringing vehicles into the US is as easy as taking them out. Definitely something to look into.

In reply to adoyle88 :

What I was trying to say is that this project will be most appealing to people who are already beetle fans and probably own a shell  and want a project.  But how big of a market is thatcompared to the Goblin market?

The Goblin was a brilliant idea. People were/are into exo cars and the Goblin had to be the most cost effective way into the club with a single donor plain-vanilla cheap donor that can be built with minimal tools, space and skills. Without leaving this couch, I can find your Goblin website and find a cheap running donor Cobalt before I have my next coffee. 

I can find enough YouTube videos to see that it must have worked out for you and gained enough buyers to create a critical mass and spread the word about how fun they are.

This new product seems to up the buy-in level on space, cost and skills. I am in Ontario Canada, and the only Bugs I can find at a glance are runners for 8-10k, Same with VW GTI drivetrain donors at around 5 k for running but not roadworthy donors. I am sure there are bargains to be had, but I would have to search and or stumble into two good deals before getting fired-up enough to invest in the chassis. Not a bad thing as long as there are enough people to make it work. I am sure you have done the business case so look forward to seeing this come to life as did the Goblin.

In reply to NOHOME :

Two notes about comparing this platform to the Goblin: it is not replacing the Goblin and it won't only be for a Beetle in the future. This is a neat way to test out many of the ideas we want to apply to the next Goblin while also creating a platform to widen our audience. We are distributing our eggs beyond the exo-car basket to one that includes people that want a rolling chassis that can accept a full body (whether it is a Beetle body now or later on a Ghia, or a 356 convertible or whatever else someone wants to come up with)

My dad and I once wanted to build an exoskeletal car so we did and now we want to build a wickedly fast Beetle so we are. We've never claimed to be business men but based on what we've heard from potential customers, customers and guys on the web, we believe there is a market for some type of platform that can be the basis for many projects.

I'm going to try to get you guys caught up on our prototyping process over the next few days. 

We don't have a laser cutter at the shop but we do have a CNC plasma table. It definitely doesn't produce parts that we'd send out the door but for prototyping, it sure beats when we were breaking endmills trying to cut sheet metal on the CNC mill for the Goblin prototypes. Ever try to cut a long piece of 14 gauge on a mill? Not fun.

We cut 14 gauge, 11 gauge, 3/16, 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick steel on our plasma table to make the prototype part and tools for the VeeDub ReDub project. There is definitely more finishing work on plasma cut parts than the laser cut parts but sending handfuls of parts out to be laser cut was out of the question. Too pricey to do just a single cars worth of parts and when (not if) a part doesn't work out, we can just burn out another one after tweaking it on the computer.

Here's a shot of the paths on the control computer.

And this is a photo of the machine cutting 1/4 inch steel.

Here's a look at the tunnel on the plasma table. We don't have a way to bend something this long so we had the machine "score" the bend lines by cutting slots.

The slotted piece to the right is the "floor" of the tunnel. Those slots are where the tunnel's slots will line up. I'll show that in the next post.

The following is with understanding that this is prototype renderings, may not be final or complete, and may be pending FEA or other Structural analysis.   If you've identified this or evaluated it to satisfaction ignore it an move on.  

I would strongly consider making the rear cross bar a sheet metal bent structure like the backbone.    I am assuming there is a bolt in bar of some kind behind the engine at the top to tie the upper A-arm and suspension loads together.   Your cross car structure will transfer pure torsional loads from the joint  to the chassis tunnel really well, provided those loads are loaded in as a vertical load on the ends of those fabricated bars.  The challenge is that that's not how the loads will really be imparting that structure.  There will be a torsional load across the car (So bending along the chassis) imparted by the tube that serves as the upper A-arm and shock mount.   The structure you have won't be very strong in torsion in that way.  It will be strong in bending (Which is how it is loaded in an Idealized case).  

I don't imagine you have the space to triangulate that corner (Where the suspension support tube bolts in), but I think you would have space to make the cross bar there a fabricated sheet metal structure.  Weld a 90Degree bent 11ga plate with weld nuts on it for your suspension arm to bolt to that serves as the cap to tie the sheet metal part together.  But something like a 4" wide by 6-7" tall trapezoidal tube would work really well. 

MG midgets and I'm sure other BMC cars used this design with a large tunnel like you have welded to another large open box section with good succes on 1/4 eliptical sprung cars.   

I know I'm not explaining this well but it's kinda wierd because it's internal loading stuff.  

Otherwise this looks great and I hope it is succesfull for you.