Are classic Porsches really the only do it all older cars?

So I moved into a new house just before Christmas in an effort to trim down my cost footprint, my time commuting to work and other businesses, and setup for early retirement. Moving into the new house has had a drawback though, and that's in the garage department. I went from a 30x30 3 car workshop down to a 20x20 "2" car attached garage.

In looking for ideas to make this new space as efficient and car work friendly as possible, I ran across Jack Olsen's "12 Gauge Garage" (I know I'm late to the party on that one) and watched the video about his 911, and it got me thinking. Is there another classic car out there that do it all like his car can?

Something preferably costing less money, but won't lose value by not keeping it all original. The 911 is light so it can't be that hard on consumables and is fast on the track, and I know he swapped his motor for a newer unit from a latter model, he's drilled holes in it for aero attachment points, ect. But he can still drive it to and from the track, or to the store for a gallon of milk. I'm also pretty sure he could still sell it for a very pretty penny should he decide to do that.

So what other pre-1985 options are out there that can take off the civilized suite and tie and don some track gear? A Corvair was kinda the first thing that came to mind, but the lack of a 5th cog in the transmission and as far as I have searched, no real easy way to get one in there, has put me off of them. 240/60Z car? I'd like to keep it under 10k to allow overhead for upgrades that don't destroy the value completely.

Z car should work, but you really have to look for a 260Z or 280Z within your budget to get the most bang for your buck.

911s probably are the best choice because the aircooled ones are rather Lego like. Few cars have that sort of swappability with a similar aftermarket.

I have been thinking about this a lot too. I was kind of set on getting a nice older 911 as my next daily-driver 'semi-classic' car. But in the past 5 years or so they have gone up price so much (justified or not) and that kinda put the kibosh on that.

I think the obvious answer (and long-time rival of the 911) is a Corvette. The good thing here is that for the cost of a ratty 82 SC, you could put yourself into a nice clean low miles C5 Z51, and for the cost of a 964 you are into C5 Z06/base C6 territory.

I'm not saying that there aren't other answers, early Z's, modified E30's, etc, would probably fit the bill too. Look at older car mags and see what cars were used in comparison tests with the 911 "back in the day."

1/2 gen F body? Sky is basically the limit on suspension, countless engine/trans options.

I'd definitely consider the Z-car. Like the 911, there are parts everywhere & multiple performance mods can be done and still by considered "original." Plus the Z-Car, 510, 610, 710, & 810 models were based on the same shared parts concept.

Other advantages to the Z. You can actually work on it yourself with the engine and transmission in place. Adjusting the valves isn't an all day job. When you buy parts, you shouldn't need to take out a "Home Improvement Loan."

What do you need the car to do, be a genuine all rounder? I love oil cooled Porsche's, but having driven them they have very serious HVAC limitations that make very cold, hot and especially humid weather a pain. What about an E24 635CSI? There is a ton of up dating and back dating that can be done with other generations of BMW. The M30 is slightly more reliable than gravity and cheaper than chips to work on. They ride well, drive well etc. For a do it all DD classic I think that's the direction I'd be looking in. They are also drop dead gorgeous with Euro bumpers when you loose the silly NA spec diving boards.

Nova/Chevy II? The upgrade potential is practically limitless. What about a late 70s Mercury Capri? VW Rabbit (if you're fine with FWD)?

Fiat X1/9 or Honda Del Sol or Toyota MR2.

In reply to rconlon: Or CRXSi

I've been thinking about Corvettes more and more lately. I'd have to agree with SEADave. A Corvette is a lot of bang for the buck and prices in Southern New England (at least) are crazy cheap for decent 15+ year old cars.

Sorry I missed the "pre-85" part when I suggested those later Vette's. But earlier Vette's would work, C4's do offer a lot of performance for the money they go for nowadays. I also like the E24 suggestion, and what about 944's? And if you are considering early Z's, you might also think about 80's RX-7's, Supras and Starions too.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: 1/2 gen F body? Sky is basically the limit on suspension, countless engine/trans options.

This is the direction I went, but I was hesitant to suggest it because a I though no one else would be crazy enough to see an F-body as a legitimate proxy for a 911.

I see my thoughts aren't far from what you guys are saying. I'd like to be in the 2500lbs or less club with about 250hp or more. I'd also like to do some track days with the car, then be able to drive it to work the next day with decent A/C.

Corvette's are very tempting, especially the newer ones as they are pretty much THE most bang for your buck you can get out there. But I imagine consumables at the track would be pretty costly. At least with the hatch I could fit some tools and track stuff in the back though. Also they are over the age range I'm looking for,

MR2 is also on my radar. Possibly 2GRFE swapped, no real cons to this one except maybe a little less storage space than a 911 because of the non 2+2. Again the age thing.

On the E30, I like the way they look with M3 flares, how does the trim and stuff hold up on these? After dealing with this E39 and it's nickle and dime stuff I'm not really feeling the BMW love, if you can convince me otherwise I'll look closer into these.

Fiat X1/9. I know nothing of these cars except they like to rust in the desert with no humidity, at least that's what I have heard. Give me the lowdown on these if you would.

t25torx wrote: I see my thoughts aren't far from what you guys are saying. I'd like to be in the 2500lbs or less club with about 250hp or more. I'd also like to do some track days with the car, then be able to drive it to work the next day with decent A/C.

Although a bit heavier than your weight requirement, a E36 M3 will meet the rest. My history with the ex's '97 M3 coupe pretty much spoiled my attempt at owning an E30.

As a long time S30 Datsun Z guy, I vote for the '70-'78 models. Plenty of good cars are still available but be warned, classic Japanese car prices are rising fast. There are tons of aftermarket performance support out there, all easily reversible if you want to return to stock. Routine consumables are cheap. Tires are cheap. Working on them is very easy. Plus the S30 has gorgeous looks that still turn heads. I can't stop for gas without lots of conversations and picture taking.

As far as weight goes, my largely stock and fuel injected '75 280Z checked in at 2660 pounds on the scales with a full tank of gas, spare tire, jack and tools but with the heavy crash bumpers removed . The weights on a stock suspension were nearly perfect at 622 left front, 656 right front, 675 left rear and 707 right rear. Corner balancing the car with an adjustable suspension would get them spot on. There's some easy weight to be shed from the car too so under 2600 is not a problem.

The downside? Rust. Find a rust free car and you'll be far ahead of the game. The best combination is probably a 240Z with an L28 engine built by Spirit Datsun or Rebello backed with a 280ZX five speed. You'd have the lightest Z chassis with the best inline six cylinder engine and hit your power and weight goals with no problem.

Wanna go crazy? Swap in an LT1, RB26, SR20 or just about anything else you want to. The engine bay is enormous and if you check out hybridz.org you'll find lots of great builds.

GTV6

Too many have been killed in accidents or raced to death. If you've got a clean example, they are a fun, practical, automobile that can be driven in anger all while holding their resale value.

really....???

Ok, I'll bite... why not an older Corolla???

mine is 2200#, 170hp, 6 speed equipped, that is a ball to drive, can carry over 400#s, or something as large as a 6' xmas tree. It has little inherent value, allowing you to change whatever you want, and unless the work was done poorly, the value only goes up!

It can carry 4, 5 in a pinch, mine gets over 31mpg on the highway, and about 25 around town. It utilizes almost the entire AE86 suspension, so performance goodies are plentiful, while consumables are cheap

I'd vote 240Z as well, but as mentioned, by one quickly and get the best (no rust) you can find. I owned a '71 for years, and raced one as well. Compared to some of the other cars built in the same time frame, they are cheap to run, can be made to have a lot of power, and are fun to drive.

The most fun I ever had on track was in the 240. It's a bit of a workout as the steering is heavy, but it simply works. You can drift it, drive it nice and tidy, and it sounds awesome to boot.

I've also owned both street and race versions of the MR2 and X1/9 and I'd endorse either of those as well. I remember doing a Ferrari track day once in Hoelscher's old DSP X1/9 and it was far, far from the slowest car there, at a fraction of the cost. You'll never get 250hp, but they're a joy to drive and feel ever so Italian. In a good way.

The good news about X's though is that they usually don't hide rust. If they have it, you can see it. Not true on the 240 or cars like a 914. Finding good ones can be tough though, and you have to modify them to make them fast.

Has no one seriously said mustang yet? You can do anything with them and there is a market for it. I was thinking about a mustang for just that reason.

I've owned Porsches and am quite familiar with early 911's and 240Z's since friends owned them. Worked on them and driven them.

But I love my Triumph TR8's. Light little car that is very easy to get 200-250 hp on the street out of that wonderful small block all aluminiuim V8 and much more in full race applications. Unlike my Sunbeam Tiger, the TR7/8 was designed with the V8 in mind so is not quirky to work on. They are the most reliable classics I've owned. Daily drivers in the warm weather and never had a single problem.

You can pick up a great TR8 for under $10 K, and be exclusive since so few were made. Sure they have the TR7 stigma, but you'll learn to live with that. They should sell a lot more than they do, but if they did then I couldn't afford the three I have.

The problem with 911's is that they're way, way, way over priced as of late. People are buying modified cars and converting them back to original. My buddy just unloaded his two 911's because he couldn't afford not to. He bought them many years ago when the prices were sane and made a huge profit but knows he is now out of the 911 market for good. I just purchased an extra 3.9 litre engine our of a wrecked Range Rover for $350. Try doing that for a 911 these days.

Love the 240Z's. Too bad they never came as a convertible. One of the few times the Japanese got styling right IMHO.

...the only do it all older car.

There is no do it all car, period. A Packard limo won't off road and a flat fendered Dodge can't Auto-X like a 914.

So... What DO you want? I tend to stay away from Mustangs et al, even though there are plenty of parts available, Datsun Roadster? It is smaller than an MGB. 911s are pricey and I won't try to talk you into a 914, but you should drive a nice example once in your life.

I owned two X-1/9s, the second was a later model Bertone. Awful. Sports cars shouldn't have overstuffed red leather and AC in my opinion. I liked the Corvairs I had, but that swing axle for Auto-X?

You know pictures are required, right?

Dan

While I spend lots of time at PCA track days and love 911s the prices for early ones seemed to have sucked the fun out of them........the dollar to performance ratio is tough and as mentioned the AC isn't the best. As a Datsun guy a Z car is a good pick; loads of stuff available and they are easy to live with. Granted I live in the desert where the rust issue is not as severe. I have also owned an MR-2, you get AC and all the other comforts as well. You can also do loads of upgrades and turn when into a weapon or the basics and end up with a fun car for cheap. I also like TR8s, prefer hard top, classic V8 rumble etc and you won't see one everywhere. At the end of the day I fall back to something Japanese as they are the easiest to live with day to day. Go with an MR-2, there's really no down side to it.

 Tom

Don't forget about the Porsche 944 Turbo. Not quite your power/weight but close and certainly the equal of other cars being discussed. More practical than most and you see plenty of them at PCA track events. If, like me, you are not a fan of '80s turbochargers, you could go for a 944 S2 (coupe), but you'd have to relax your model year target.

Alfa Spider, Volvo 122's/142s, along with almost everything else mentioned.

I'm thinking a better question might be, "What older car can't be built into a do it all car with enough time, money, and blatant disregard for common sense?" Here's a prime example of a board member who decided to go with an unlikely choice for a commuter and autocross car. I don't think he even had that much money in it.

Autocross video - turn the sound all the way up for full effect

Not the most competitive choice, but a lot of fun to watch!

Now that is very entertaining, as well as impressive.