First Car Hunt

Ok I still have all the info from the other posts I've made and I would really like an old VW, Mercedes or BMW. those are the three manufacturers I've decided to look at. I recently talked to a mechanic friend and he said that the old VW are cool and fairly easy to work on, but the parts for the air cooled engines are very expensive. He said the same for old Mercedes (1960's). He said late 1970- 1980's Mercedes and mid 1980- early 1990's BMW are a good choice for good cars that also look cool. Obviously the BMW E30 and E28 are gunna be good choices but I really wanted to know about the E24, E9 and the Mercedes W113 and Mercedes C107 and Mercedes W126. I wanted to know if they were good reliable cars that I can use as daily drivers that are reliable and if they are fairly cheap to maintain.

Thanks.

a 25-45 Y/O European car will never be "cheap" to maintain as a daily driver. Let's face it, that's a pretty old car and small things start to break especially under the stress of daily driving. It's not just because they are European, It's because they are just old.

Oh and no offense, I wouldn't call a late 70-late 80's Mercedes cool looking, but that is just me. Anything after the W114 and before the W124 are not that pretty or cool in my eyes.

W113's are going to be pretty expensive. The Buy-in price on a good driver quality W113 is 40-50K C107 are a lot more affordable with the late 70's 450 SLC being in the 9000-13K range

Honestly though, What kind of budget are you looking both for purchase and what do you have for maintenance? That will help with trying to guide you into something.

Have you looked at some of the American offerings? C4s and P-cars are pretty cool

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: I recently talked to a mechanic friend and he said that the old VW are cool and fairly easy to work on, but the parts for the air cooled engines are very expensive.

I disagree. Mercedes however .....

Your profile doesn't say where you live. Up here (Northeast) old VWs disappear from rust long before mechanical money has to be spent.

I had a mid 80s MB 300e with a stick, anyone that wants $75 for a distributor cap isn't the brand I want when a head gasket blows.

Take a look at VW GTi, Rabbits et al, BIG aftermarket, lots of message board of information.

Do you want to Auto-X?

Dan

In reply to bmw88rider:

I had the W113 on my post but I dont have nearly enough money to buy that one (they look really cool though) and I found a few nice C107's looking ones for 3.5 to 4k. my mechanic friend also said that the both the the old and the new SL series are way expensive to take care of. I realize that older European cars are gonna be expensive, but some will be more than others

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4991457692.html

In reply to G_Body_Man:

What are the C4's and P-cars?

When did aircooled VW engine parts get expensive?

In reply to 914Driver:

I'm up in the Northwest.

I really like the VW GTi's

When I say VW's I mean the beetle. He said that they are fun to drive but they require so much maintenance that it takes the fun out of them pretty fast.

Once you button up oil leaks, old VWs are bullet proof.

Dan

E24 BMWs are essentially the same mechanically as an E28, so in that respect they reliable, easy to fix and parts are generally available for reasonable prices. The tough part will be interiors, they tend to deteriorate and can be expensive to replace. The E9 may be the prettiest BMW ever made, but finding one you can afford that's not rusted beyond repair will be a problem.

In reply to stuart in mn:

Good to know. I really like the E24's

914Driver wrote: Once you button up oil leaks, old VWs are bullet proof. Dan

Yer funny...

I generally agree with those offering caution... I was forced to use my '88 E30 as my daily driver for awhile. Only got towed home twice in 2 months...

Ian F wrote:

914Driver wrote: Once you button up oil leaks, old VWs are bullet proof. Dan

Yer funny... I generally agree with those offering caution... I was forced to use my '88 E30 as my daily driver for awhile. Only got towed home twice in 2 months...

You do realize that the E30 isn't a VW right?

If you find a good C107, or R107, it could be a good bet. Not that they aren't extremely expensive to fix if something major happens, because they are. But they tend not to break, at all. Very nice daily drivers, but will NOT drive in the snow. Rain is scary enough.

I've owned air cooled VW microbuses pretty much continually since 1977 or so, and I've taken 3000+ mile round trips in them quite a few times. I had to stop and tinker on occasion, but they always got me where I was going. A regular beetle is pretty much the same mechanically as the '64 and '68 buses, while a superbeetle is pretty much the same as the '79 I still have. Rust is what kills them -- not a problem here in the Puget Sound area -- but mechanically they're pretty easy to keep going.

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: In reply to G_Body_Man: What are the C4's and P-cars?

Thank you! Perfect!

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: You do realize that the E30 isn't a VW right?

Duh... two responses in one post.

The first was making fun of 914driver and his comment about VW oil leaks (if it ain't leaking, it's out of oil).

The second is my experience/warning about using a 25+ year old German car as a DD. And my car was a fairly well cared for example, but it still proved to be far too unreliable for my tastes. That car broke and needed towing home more than any other car I own - and I own three British cars. Granted, since sold, the car is (apparently) now serving as a DD - but the new owner is a German car tech who works on BMW's every day. Can it be done? Sure. But will it be dead-nuts reliable like a newer car (put gas in it and change the oil once in a while)? Chances are slim and it may take a good deal of work (and $$$) to get it to that point. Few folks sell old Euro cars because they're running perfectly and don't need something. Or a lot of somethings...

In reply to Ian F:

Ok I gotcha.

I found some old VW Beetles that seem to be in pretty good shape

http://bellingham.craigslist.org/cto/4953914809.html

http://kpr.craigslist.org/cto/5007214935.html (The pictures of the car are nice)

http://kpr.craigslist.org/cto/4961234404.html

The middle guys says that it has never broken down on him, it has less than 100k miles on it and the car looks really nice.

I love old cars but if you are buying a daily driver please buy something with modern crumple zones, good (and newish) shoulder harnesses, and an air bag and anti-lock brakes at a minimum. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing we do on a daily basis. Cars prior to about the late 80s are far less safe than later ones. Beatles are total death traps, as are many cars that stopped development in the 60s. if you don't die on the highway daily driving an unsafe old car you can live to enjoy many of them over the years as weekend play cars driven short distances and at special events.

In reply to BillBall:

Safety is another issue worth mentioning. Personally, the only classic/older car I'd trust in an accident is a Volvo. Those received a lot safety engineering that was far ahead of cars much newer. But you will still lack things like anti-lock brakes and airbags. I occasionally day dream about using a classic Mini (or my Spitfire or GT6) as a daily driver, but I also realize those cars are essentially rolling coffins in an accident. The seat belt mainly serves to make it easier for the clean-up crew: less body parts to collect outside the car. That said, a friend's son was in an accident in a Spitfire - a pretty hard hit that destroyed the car - and he walked away. My friend also realizes how lucky he was (or maybe his wife...) and I don't think his son is driving a Spitfire as his DD anymore, although my friend does use his most of the year.

Having just had mine out yesterday to run some errands, I was again reminded of how driving a Spitfire is a bit like riding a motorcycle: assume you are invisible due to how low and small you are. Keeping up with modern traffic is a bit of a challenge as well. While other cars are accelerating normally, I had to really wring it out to keep up. It's a light car, but 50 hp is still only 50 hp. Driving a car without power brakes is a re-learning experience as well, with much more pedal pressure required than in a modern car.

In reply to Ian F:

In reply to BillBall:

I fully under stand what u are saying. How older cars aren't nearly as save as new ones are. Ian said that the only older car that he'd trust in an accedent were the old volvos. When u say that do u mean the old 240D's and DL's that u see a lot of people driving (mid to late 80's)?

Ok back to the other cars now. The E24 is basiclly the same as the E28 but with a different body, the E9 is gunna be super expensive to find one in good condition, the C107 is a good choice but once it breaks down its super expensive to fix, and the the VW Beetle's are cool but they are unreliable and are steel death traps.

ToxicTurtl3 wrote: In reply to 914Driver: I'm up in the Northwest. I really like the VW GTi's When I say VW's I mean the beetle. He said that they are fun to drive but they require so much maintenance that it takes the fun out of them pretty fast.

Beetle maintenance is pretty much just changing the oil, greasing the suspension, and setting the valves every 3000 miles. Ignition system tuneups now and then, transaxle oil every 30k or so, adjust the brakes and clutch cable as needed, flush the brake fluid every few years. Engines go 100-150k between (cheap) rebuilds IIRC. Nothing else to it, it's about the simplest "modern" car built and by far the cheapest European car to keep on the road.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Cool that sounds easy enough.

Maybe look for a w123 mercedes, either with the turbodiesel or the m110 gasser. They tend to be reliable as gravity and aren't nearly as expensive to fix as the "big" benzes. Also strike a nice balance between old and modern, IMHO. Bonus points for a 280CE, I would still love one of those.

In reply to WizardDog:

Those are pretty awesome! Do u know anything about the W126? I found a 420SEL that I thought looked pretty cool.