Japanese classics?

I didn't realize they made classics in Japan?

Just kidding, just kidding.:-)

japanese classic's.. yes please. hope to see them. lets see more of the obscure ones... not that i dont like 510's but thats all you really see. im thinking vintage celica's, corollas and the like... of course im a bit biased 73 toyota celica by blackrabbitracing, on Flickr

dont get me wrong I do not expect you to include 4x4's or off road stuff... but i just had to share the little yellow bastard that folowed me home recently. 1972 suzuki lj20v, 360cc's of two stroke trouble. 1972 Suzuki LJ 20v by blackrabbitracing, on Flickr

couldnt help myself... drug home 2 parts cars today. 1974 ST by blackrabbitracing, on Flickr 1973 ST by blackrabbitracing, on Flickr

Ive only parted out about 15 of these over the years but more spares is better right???

In reply to Leo Basile:

Sorry Leo, but that's your loss.

TR8owner wrote: I didn't realize they made classics in Japan? Just kidding, just kidding.:-)

Really? Where do you think the design idea of the TR7 & TR8 came from?

I'd like to see some articles on early cars like the Mazda RX-2, Honda S cars, early Subies, almost anything that covers some of the early vehicles produced by now-common Japanese manufacturers. Maybe some that weren't even available here.

bravenrace wrote: I'd like to see some articles on early cars like the Mazda RX-2, Honda S cars, early Subies, almost anything that covers some of the early vehicles produced by now-common Japanese manufacturers. Maybe some that weren't even available here.

I agree, I'd also add the Mazda Cosmo, the Datsun Fair Lady, and the 810 sedan.

We had a local Chevy Dealer who offered a free "spare" in the bed of each 3/4 ton or bigger pickup he sold. The "spare" was a Honda S.

There was a post on the GRM board this morning about a '67 Toyota Scout Pickup. I had never seen or even heard of this vehicle, but it's pretty cool. Articles on vehicles like this are what I'm talking about. BTW, the strong lean towards British vehicles is the reason I let my subscription laps. Don't get me wrong, I like them (I own one, although you never do articles on TVR's), there's just too many of them. How about some stuff on Marco's or Ginetta? Or Fiberfab or Intermeccanica? I'd also like to see more vintage Japanese, American and even Italian vehicle's covered along with the British and German stuff. Hey, maybe I could chronical the building of my TVR for some future articles. Only problem is that I can't write worth beans.

Rupert wrote:

TR8owner wrote: I didn't realize they made classics in Japan? Just kidding, just kidding.:-)

Really? Where do you think the design idea of the TR7 & TR8 came from?

Where did it come from?

In reply to Rupert:

"Really? Where do you think the design idea of the TR7 & TR8 came from?"

Rupert,

Would you care to tell us which Japanese car the TR7/TR8 wedge design was copied from? it was an in house design and when you consider the TR7 wedge first came out in 1975, it was AFAIK, one of the original wedge shapes. The earliest Jap car than I can think of at the moment with that shape is the Toyota Supra which resembles the TR "wedge" from the front, but came out later.

The Japs are not renowned for original design, their best cars were copies from other countries, - Toyota 2000 (E type), Honda 800 (MG Midget), Datsun 1600/2000 (MGB) Datsun 510 (|Ford Lotus Cortina), Miata (Lotus Elan), Accura NSX (Ferrari 308), etc, etc,

That's not to say that Japanese classics are not great cars. They copied and improved on original designs and even hit a few home runs - Datsun 240Z for example. But name me one totally original design that ever came out of Japan?

TR8owner wrote: That's not to say that Japanese classics are not great cars. They copied and improved on original designs and even hit a few home runs - Datsun 240Z for example. But name me one totally original design that ever came out of Japan?

I may be going off on a anthropological tangent here, but for me, that's part of a Japanese classic's charm. I'm interested in Japanese culture and history, and the most remarkable thing to me is that (in Western terms) they went from being a medieval society to a major industrial power in the span of a single generation. I think it's a remarkable accomplishment. Yes, they did it by "copying" the Western powers that were occupying the rest of Asia (search for Japan's Meiji Period)..but everything they did copy was "modified" for their cultural tastes. I find the process ("..let's just use what worked for them until we catch up to them..") fascinating, and the cars they made from the 1960s-80s are a wonderful example of it.

I'm with Suddard (am I wrong, or does a lot of what Tim says about the 240z sound like "..why aren't these cars expensive yet?.." ), I think as the guys who grew up with these cars get older are gonna crave them. OTOH, most of them were made in so much higher numbers than the old European classics you & I love that it's going to be quite some time before the prices get as high as they are for the European marques we crave. After all, the 240Z is just as old as the TR-6, and look where those prices are. And another thing I notice is just what J-cars prices are beginning to rise on..it all seems to be on the cars that were not avalible in the US market.

All in all, an interesting topic, one I hope we'll keep discussing. I wonder if Andy Reid could give us a little tidbit or two about what he's seen in the auctions over the last several years. Personally, although I think prices on J-cars may go up a little, I hope they don't do it soon. I seriously want another 2nd gen Honda Prelude (an 83 was the first new car I ever owned), and the prices on the few I've seen for sale are far below what I'd pay if money were no object (IOW, I might actually be able to afford one).

blackrabbit wrote: 73 toyota celica by blackrabbitracing, on Flickr

Sweet Celica. I guess while breaking down 15 of them, you finally found a tub with no rust? (FGC now ducking, running away serpentine style)

In reply to friedgreencorrado:

Yeah, that is a bit of a tangent. LOL!!

I've owned a boatload of Japanese cars over the past 30 yrs, but mostly econoboxes that IMHO aren't ever really going to ever be classics. I already said the Japanese made some great cars that are now classics, but most are copies of British cars, the 240Z being an exception.

Sort of like my old YashicaMat 124G camera. It was a unashamed copy of the German Rolliflex, but still a good camera.

The reasons why the 240Z's aren't so expensive yet is the relatively high volume and the fact it wasn't a convertible.

In reply to FGC.. no need to duck or run.. your right these cars rust!! badly!! just like any other jap or italian or german car from this era.. but if truth be told this blue one was the very first one i ever got back in 1984 and it was and still is totally rust free! however of the 25 or so ive owned over the past couple decades most were rusted badly!! the two i drug home a few days ago are... but ive still got one hiding im my storage thats the next project and its a rust free shell too..

First for Bravenrace, the model is a Toyota "Stout" as in sturdy not Scout as in Cub.

For TR8 owner under the heading of name one totally original design that came out of Japan?

OK here you go 1964 Toyota Corona 1965 Nissan Silvia Coupe 1966 Mazda Cosmo Sport 1969 Nissan Skyline GTR 1973 Honda Civic 1978 Mazda RX7

As for Japanese Cars being copies of Brit stuff, most of what Japan made under license stopped by the early 60's. There was maybe a decade post war that Nissan, Toyota and others made cars under license. Exactly what British cars were copied by the Corona (Farina style input ) Corolla, Celica, Cosmo, Civic 410 (Pininfarina styled) 240Z, 510, Skyline, Silvia or RX7?

Some of the biggest icons when it comes to Classics were copies AC Cobra / Ace & early Camaros look an awful lot like a certain Ferrari

One thing for sure, thank God that the Japanese cranked out huge numbers of cars. This will at least keep the prices reasonable, I've driven some multi million dollar classics and as cool as they are they're not 1000 times better than the common classic cars. For sure a V12 Ferrari is at least 10 times better than a TR6, Alfa Guiletta or 240Z maybe even 100 times. Yes some cars are so rare they really are worth millions, much like a Van Gogh is worth millions but won't give you as much pleasure as pictures of your kids or grandkids.

  Tom

Not to nit-pick, but the Datsun 1500/1600/2000 roadsters are not MGB copies. The 1500 Fairlady predates the MG.

Here's an idea for a CMS comparo article... How 'bout a Mk3 GT6 and a 240Z? I've always thought that the two were very much alike. Just a thought. Cheers, Scott

It's true that the Datsun roadster predates the MGB, but look at the mechanical bits. The entire drivetrain is cloned from BMC. For years I drove an early Datsun pickup with the same drivetrain; it was all but identical to my MGA. To their credit however, Nissan abandoned that old pushrod engine long before the Brits did.

Returning to an earlier tanget, while many folks have called the Miata a modern MGB, an argument could be made that the Miata owes more to the TR7.

All this aside, are there Japanese classics that interest me? Absolutely! A Datsun 510 and 240Z would be welcome to join the British & Swedish iron in my garage if my wife would only allow it. And I would love to have my old 320 pickup back, but I can't pry my brother-in-law's fingers off of it.

i don't know about you guys, but even without a removable top this is dead sexy...

This makes it even more fun...

Classic looks with modern performance...

And modern safety...

*Disclaimer: yes it's mine... ;)

Therefore i vote for more coverage of the cars from the land of the rising sun.

I don't know if kei cars go back far enough to be classics, but they're interesting to see and learn about too. I agree on more classics from all over the world, not just BMC, that gets boring.

In reply to ww:

Completely off-topic question, but what are those wheels? I'm still looking for some I like for my Celica project.

BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to ww: Completely off-topic question, but what are those wheels? I'm still looking for some I like for my Celica project.

Those are 17" Panasports availble from Japan.

may not be a Japanese classic now, but the day will come.

Nissan GTRs

The "Skyline" GT-R (KPGC-10) is already a classic in every other hemisphere.

I'm not sure the "Nissan" GT-R is ever going to be a classic, but who can tell with any certainty!