Lusting after cars with bad reputations?

I am admitting I lust after Maserati Biturbo coupes. There I said it! Not the early carb ones however, but the '87 FI coupes. I know they have awful reputations and many of it well deserved but also earned by the early carbed ones. My Dad has an '87 Zagato convertible and has had it for almost 14 years now. It looks sharp, has a very nice comfortable interior, very respectable performance, and knock on wood, has been relatively problem free. He's had to do exhaust, (so what), fuse box, (they all do), rear diff seal and that's about it. Oh, the timing belt changes every three years or so are pricier than your typical Volvo's but still with oil change, coolant etc. it's under a grand. They , (the FI Coupes) are rather rare but if I ever found one that was in good shape, well cared for, and not bodged up or rusted out? I'd be sorely tempted. I guess I'd just have to live with the "shame" I have a "Bi turbo". I'm guessing TR wedge guys amongst others know what I'm talking about. I guess also that Porsche 914, 924, used to feel it too but that's changing.......Maybe it just takes time?

Mine, while I believe it doesn't have a bad reputation is viewed as a poser car..........I like Ferrari Mondials, there I said it.......let the ridicule begin, I don't care if it can be out dragged by a Camry or that I can turn faster lap times in a Miata......I still like it.

Tom

Tom1200 wrote: I like Ferrari Mondials

I do too. Especially the coupes, in colors other than red.

Cars generally don't inspire lust by being practical and reliable. I don't particularly want a Biturbo, but there are a lot of other impractical cars I'd be interested in.

In reply to maseratiguy:

TR8's and even later TR7's are among the most reliable practical classics that you buy. The early TR7's made in the Speke plant near Liverpool - let's just say not so much.

I don't mind a car that is thought to be potentially problematic as long as its reasonably simple to work on. Its when you start getting into things like 928's etc. that I'd run and hide.

My list:

1) A V12 Jag, preferably a sedan. Bonus points if its RHD.

2) An Alfa Milano, preferably a Verde, but a Gold would be OK too. Too bad that we didn't get the Evolution on this continent.

3) A Lancia Scorpion, but I might settle for a FIAT X1/9. Honestly, I'm not sure if my fat but will fit in either of those.

4) A classic mini Cooper, or reasonably convincing replica of one.OK, they don't have a bad reputation, but they are British, so they are suspect by default.

5) Speaking of Brits, I'd like a classic Range Rover some day too.

WilD wrote:

Tom1200 wrote: I like Ferrari Mondials

I do too. Especially the coupes, in colors other than red.

Even in red. Good lines.

TR8, yes I realize it was just the early 7's that tainted the whole line in the eyes of the unwashed masses. Also after re-reading my original post I don't think the Porsches had bad reliability, but the Porsche faithful of the time pee'd on them. I guess I tend to like under dog cars. Love TR's Milano's, Bi Turbo's, Rover SD-1 anyone? ... Or a P6 for that matter.

.... And Mondial's are really growing on me.

HappyAndy wrote: My list: 1) A V12 Jag, preferably a sedan. Bonus points if its RHD. 2) An Alfa Milano, preferably a Verde, but a Gold would be OK too. Too bad that we didn't get the Evolution on this continent. 3) A Lancia Scorpion, but I might settle for a FIAT X1/9. Honestly, I'm not sure if my fat but will fit in either of those. 4) A classic mini Cooper, or reasonably convincing replica of one.OK, they don't have a bad reputation, but they are British, so they are suspect by default. 5) Speaking of Brits, I'd like a classic Range Rover some day too.

Jags are fine as long as you are realistic about their value. You can go bottoms up real fast on the ones that are low value if you try to repair them - any V12 sedan is worth less than an engine job, for instance.

Alfa Milano is fine but a Saab is less money and gives as much fun.

The Lancias sent to this continent sucked the big one - not enough power to get out of their own way (81 vs. 120 in Europe). Also the usual rust issues.

The X1/9 is likewise power compromised (although a friend stuck a hotted up 124 motor in his...) but they are SUCH a sweet handling car, better than just about anything else of the day, that I can forgive the lack of power and the styling, which isn't bad, it just doesn't appeal to me.

Classic aka 'real' Minis are a ton of fun. No apologies needed for them.

The Biturbos are fine, not huge amounts of power by today's standards, but not bad looking, if a tad expensive to maintain. Buy thm, break them, discard them like a Jag XJ12 and you'd be fine.

TR-7s leave me a bit cold, though the TR-8 is alright (we have a relative ton of them around here). People buy them figuring big V8 power. Wrong! Only decent power and performance for the day, lackluster for today, but then most classic cars are like that. Nothing wrong with them, and you can improve power if you like. Don't know why they haven't increased more in price.

Mondial? Underpowered. Step up to a 348 - more fun and better resale - assuming you resell before something breaks.

SAAB as much fun as a Milano? Not quite. Not even as much as the 164 that was its sibling. Plus I'd respectfully disagree with some of you other assessments.

I want a Maserati also. But I want mine in a Citroen SM. Now there's a practical car for the US!

In reply to wspohn:

SAAB=\=ALFA. I assume that you are referring to a SAAB 9000 VS the ALFA 164. They are significantly different cars despite sharing a platform. The Milano has only an engine in common with the 164. I've owned 3 9000s BTW.

As for the low powered Lancia and FIAT, I have two things to say about that.

1) Its more fun to drive a slow car fast then it is to drive a fast car slow.

2) I didn't get to be an Ultradork by failing to learn that every car is only a welder and sawzall away from an engine swap

I deliberately avoid looking very hard:

I saw a Mustang II fastback recently and thought, hmmm a nice looking car. Not that I lust after one, but i could see it

Alfa Milanos aren't scary, they have terrible headlights and no ground clearance, and the HVAC is most likely broken, but mine was pretty reliable and easy to work on, and most of the parts were cheap.

I like Citroen SMs, Aston Martin Lagondas, Maserati Quattroporte IIIs and various other weird cars. The Quattroporte is probably the only one I could afford anytime soon (they go as low as $4500 in ok condition), but any of them would be fun to have even though most people don't like them.

In reply to HappyAndy: There is a 2 door XJ12 for sale in Kentucky that had it's engine swapped out for a Chevy 350. Yuk! But solid enough body that makes it worthy of saving.. Those two doors are very desirable. Buy a running but rusty 4 door V12 for a few hundred bucks. You could even get a later one with the better engine/trans. For less than $2000 and a lot of work have something really neat.

wspohn wrote:

HappyAndy wrote: My list: 1) A V12 Jag, preferably a sedan. Bonus points if its RHD. 2) An Alfa Milano, preferably a Verde, but a Gold would be OK too. Too bad that we didn't get the Evolution on this continent. 3) A Lancia Scorpion, but I might settle for a FIAT X1/9. Honestly, I'm not sure if my fat but will fit in either of those. 4) A classic mini Cooper, or reasonably convincing replica of one.OK, they don't have a bad reputation, but they are British, so they are suspect by default. 5) Speaking of Brits, I'd like a classic Range Rover some day too.

Jags are fine as long as you are realistic about their value. You can go bottoms up real fast on the ones that are low value if you try to repair them - any V12 sedan is worth less than an engine job, for instance. Doesn't that depend on your skills and equipment? Frankly I'd rather spend a weekend rebuilding a V12 than play golf or any other stick or ball sport.. The only costs involved would be whatever parts not in my inventory.. Alfa Milano is fine but a Saab is less money and gives as much fun. The Lancias sent to this continent sucked the big one - not enough power to get out of their own way (81 vs. 120 in Europe). Also the usual rust issues. The X1/9 is likewise power compromised (although a friend stuck a hotted up 124 motor in his...) but they are SUCH a sweet handling car, better than just about anything else of the day, that I can forgive the lack of power and the styling, which isn't bad, it just doesn't appeal to me. Classic aka 'real' Minis are a ton of fun. No apologies needed for them. The Biturbos are fine, not huge amounts of power by today's standards, but not bad looking, if a tad expensive to maintain. Buy thm, break them, discard them like a Jag XJ12 and you'd be fine. TR-7s leave me a bit cold, though the TR-8 is alright (we have a relative ton of them around here). People buy them figuring big V8 power. Wrong! Only decent power and performance for the day, lackluster for today, but then most classic cars are like that. Nothing wrong with them, and you can improve power if you like. Don't know why they haven't increased more in price. Mondial? Underpowered. Step up to a 348 - more fun and better resale - assuming you resell before something breaks.

Alfa Milano is fine but a Saab is less money and gives as much fun." ....Huh?

...and if you can rebuild Jag V-12, God Bless you, you would certainly be able to get more power out of the TR7/8, Lancia's, x-19 etc. ......Just saying'

I just bought a Lotus Esprit S4. I'm not ashamed, but I expect to have more trouble with it than many other cars have. Yes, the Renault transmission needs to be treated gently. It is 21 years old. Electrical issues will occurr. Peppy and fun though. This will be my sixth Lotus.

I wouldn't call a Saab more fun than a Milano, especially a Verde. When Saab wanted to go with with a 4 stroke engine back when, they got one from Triumph. It eventually ended up in the TR7 as well. I always think of that when I hear bragging about Saab engineering. They had to buy Triumph engines.

My past and present cars: 1978 TR7 1974 Fiat X1/9 1980 TR7 1988 Alfa Milano Verde

Do I have a problem?

Tony Brucia Long Island, NY

No, I wouldn't say it is a problem..............It is more of a "quirk" or uniqueness,...like Cindy Crawfords' mole.

The great thing about time is that as it passes enthusiast find ways to find and fix the problems with legendary "lemons" making them much nicer to live with.

As I mention often by virtue of instruction at various track & manufacturer events I get to drive loads of different cars and one of the most fun cars I've driven was a Fiat X1/9. The motor revved sweetly and on the skinny stock tires rotated sweetly, I'd own one in a heartbeat. One of my main competitors at autocross in the the 90s had fitted a moderately tuned 1500 to his car and it went pretty well, I suspect it might of had all of 100hp but as my car had 80 it seemed like a rocket.

I forgot another car which was derided by many...purists. Thew Lotus Elan M100, (fwd, Isuzu motor, etc. ) I just LOVE the looks of those! Not so much the anonymous plastic interior, but the smooth, wide, low, exterior, YUM!

maseratiguy wrote: I forgot another car which was derided by many...purists. Thew Lotus Elan M100, (fwd, Isuzu motor, etc. ) I just LOVE the looks of those! Not so much the anonymous plastic interior, but the smooth, wide, low, exterior, YUM!

I'd really like to try one of these out sometime!