Recommendations for a daily driver

I'm a newbie to the field, and am interested in getting a "classic" to use as a daily driver. I live in the southeastern U.S., so there's humidity, but no snow/salt. I live in a city where I have off-street parking, but no garage. My daily commute is about 17 miles, round trip. As far as budget goes, it's $15k, but to keep a good repair allowance, maybe keep it closer to $10k.

I put "classic" in quotation marks because I'm willing to consider something as modern as the 90s, but I don't want a vehicle that could be totalled if something electronic/computerized went wrong (which I think starts happening a lot in the 90s, or even late 80s).

My likes:

-The styling on American cars until about 1957 (though some of the cars (i.e. Cadillacs) are just too long for me)

-Cute European coupes (like the Karmann Ghia), and some sedans (like the BMW 2002). I really like the roadsters, but they're not practical for my life.

-Japanese sporty vehicles of the 80s/early 90s (Eclipse, 300Z, Celica, Supra, etc)...but finding one untouched by young males seems nigh onto impossible

Requirements:

-I need a backseat that can at least fit small children

-A trunk that can handle at least 2 carry-on size roller suitcases

-Preferably at least 15mpg (though the higher the better)

I think this is everything people would want to know, but if I'm missing any vital info, please let me know. So, hit me with your recommendations!

Fiat 124 came to my mind as soon as you mentioned needing a back seat. I'd personally stay away from the rice rockets. Like you mentioned, its hard to fine one that wasn't owned by a young male.

A buddy DDs his Amazon wagon, that's a neat ride and very simple to fix.

Two cars came to mind immediately, an E36 BMW M3 ('90's), or a Porsche 944 Turbo or S2 ('80's).

A '93 plus Supra would also fit the bill, but finding a stock one around your price break might be tough.

I would recommend the oldest Mustang that you can afford. Possibly a Fox body model. I would think that no A/C will get very old for a DD in the South West. 80-90's Mercedes can look great and are common and modern. Decide your style and price and go for the best deal that you can find. I think that once you start the process, something will jump out at you.

Cheers Ron

Mercedes SL or Jaguar coupe of choice.

tuna55 wrote: A buddy DDs his Amazon wagon, that's a neat ride and very simple to fix.

Do I know you?

Your budget would probably stretch to a decent driver 911SC but that won't carry two roller suitcases, not to mention that the aircon on SCs isn't that great.

I would say on a budget that you might want to consider the Porsche 944, not the turbo but the standard car or a 944 S/S2. These are great cars and you can get the best one in the world for $6000-$7000 and only $2500-$3500 more for the S and S2.

In reply to KaptKaos:

maybe? I am from SC, you?

Austen: There is more than one way to do things. Change your focus from classic to enthusiast car. You still have kids to ferry and want a reliable commuter car. You may have to wait a few years before you have the luxury of a 30 year old car that will be higher maintenance but oh so very cool. What to do in the meantime? Miata, but it does not fit your description/needs. I looked at the new 2012 Fiat 500 last week and they are an enthusiast car. They are close to your budget starting at $16,000 and clubs will welcome you to join. And, 40 mpg will please you. Cheers Ron

AustenNut, I have to admit that reading your criteria you appear to not really have focused much on what you want. You're everywhere from the 50s to the 90s. You really need to narrow it down more.

So it's a daily driver, we know that much. Reliability should be near the top. It sounds like you're looking for something that drives more like a sports car, so I won't preach the advantages of 60s cars like the Mustang, Corvair, etc. I think you're into the 70s and up. Domestic cars of the 70s sucked, so we can toss them out. I'd recommend a Fiat 124, but they are really hard to find and may have too many quirky issues for you to live with daily, plus any a/c system was an add-on that rarely worked well. Alfas are too expensive. Datsun Z's don't have adequate rear seating (unless you go for the horribly unloved but possibly worthy 2+2). BMW's are always a good choice: 2002, E21, E30, E36 or even the bigger E24 or E28. Mercedes...meh. They drive more like trucks than enthusiast cars. Audi Coupe GT or 4000 quattro (you could almost do a Ur-q for your budget). Volvo Amazon or 140 have some sporting aspirations. Saabs I'm hesitant on; they can get really expensive really quick. German Capris are great cars but near impossible to find. I'd want something with a strong parts support network, so something like a XR4ti isn't going to work. There's always 80s-90s Camaros and Mustangs but they tend to be creaky and heavily worn by now, and I honestly think you can find something more interesting. Tell us more about what you think of these suggestions and we may be able to pin it down better.

Austin: Let me add a bit of a different twist to this. Your kids are going to get bigger, and will soon acquire hockey, volleyball, soccer, and dancing gear - and very soon you'll be cursing a small car and/or looking for a bigger one. Our kids are grown up and gone [still coming home for cash transfusions, though, so not THAT gone] but our weapon of choice has always been a wagon. We went through Audi Avants, DOHC Taurus wagons [a much better choice than you would think,] and even now our long distance weapon is a C320 4-Matic Merc wagon. It's a 2004 that had less than 50,000 miles on it last summer when I picked it up and it was just a shade over 19 thou - out of your budget, but earlier ones are out there. It's a stealth machine, handles really well with AMG bits underneath,and as a high-speed cruiser, goes like hell. For trans-mountain trips, our 993 increasingly gets left home - and the Merc handles all the side trips very well.

If you're still looking for a coupe, Ron has hit the nail on the head - reliability. There really are well-cared-for and properly rebuilt early/mid '80s DOHC 6-cylinder Supras out there for way less than your top budget and with the IRS and proper electrics and fuel injection, they not only handle well but they start every time. And at 170 hp or so, it's fast enough for now. We've had our go with Honda Civic Si sedans, too. They get my vote.

Be patient, if you can. Check eBay and Kijiji. Good ones really are out there.

Cheers, Dave

In reply to Dave_Jorgensen: I'll second the Civic Si. I'm also a fan of anything Toyota GT-S, there are cars out there that haven't been turned into gutted poo-box drift cars. Even the AE86 Corolla GTS can be found in stock form. It just may take a few months to find one nearby. The early Celica GTS, though a bit heavy, is one of my picks for 80's cars: IRS rear suspension, strong 22RE motor and really comfortable seats.

    Tom

Austen: Two others that you might consider as well: 1] The previous generation Mustang GT - the chassis is really solid, that 3-valve 4.6 V8 is a sweet engine, and lots of them were bought by responsible and intelligent adults. Good ones priced well under your budget limit. 2] Now that there's a new Camaro, the mid-2000 model Camaro and Firebird are now worth what they should be. They're cheap speed and you can't beat a Chevy smallblock for reliability. They may be bigger and heavier than you want, but they are great budget performance cars. Also a bunch of them are owned by old guys who maintain them properly.

How about a BMW E34 525 or 535?

Reliable, styling that is at least recognizably descended from the 2002, and plenty of trunk and back seat room. Easy to come in way under budget even for a nice one.

I owned a E34 535i and a E34 M5 and really liked both of them. The coolest thing about the E34 525 is simply unbeleivable fuel mileage, around 32 MPG highway and high 20's in the city.

First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for your suggestions. It's taken me forever to respond because I've been reflecting on your comments and suggestions. Below I've categorized the suggested vehicles by my preferences.

I may have to come to grips with the fact that an older car might have to wait until kids are out of the house. But I'm not giving up yet. The car does not have to be big enough for family road trips (there's a different car for that) but just big enough for short trips around town, or to fit my luggage when doing solo road trips.

For those who wanted more feedback on what it is I'm looking for, I prefer a smaller car, that looks unique, gets decent fuel economy, and that's fun to drive (either just being in the car, or that it has sporty handling...does not need to be a race car though).

Also, what do people think of the following cars: AMC Rambler American ('58-'60ish), Hudson Jet ('53-'54), Nash Rambler ('53-'55), Studebaker Lark ('59-'61)

And the breakdown of the cars mentioned:

I like

Porsche 944, Supra, Mercedes coupe (280CE, 300CD turbo), Porsche 911, BMW 2002, BMW E21 series, BMW E30 series, Celica STS

Possible:

BMW E36 (series or M3) (it may look too much like other cars on the road for me, and will it end up having problems in the future due to problems with computer chips, etc?)

Mustang coupe (but I don't know if I love it enough)

BMW E34 (love that gas mileage, but I wish it came in a coupe)

Doesn't do much for me:

Fiat 124, Amazon wagon, Jaguar (like the styling, but I'm too afraid of the repair bills), Audi Coupe GT, Audi 4000 Quattro, BMW E24 or E28, Civic Si, Corolla GTS

You chose some nice models but the BMW, Porsche and Mercedes cars are not cheap to maintain when they get older. Your 50's models will look good but the driving experience as a DD leaves much to be desired. I think it is time to do some test drives. Go to the used car lots and try out a few cars on your list. Also, look around while you are there and see what strikes you. Go to any cars/coffee events near you and ask around. Our local group always has a few neat cars for sale. Cheers Ron

AustenNut wrote: BMW E36 (series or M3) (it may look too much like other cars on the road for me, and will it end up having problems in the future due to problems with computer chips, etc?)

No. It will end up having problems in the future with the radiator neck coming off and the rear shock towers, if they are original or have been replaced with stock replacement parts. The electronics on these are pretty reliable though. They didn't get too carried away with gadget mania yet.

Also, what do people think of the following cars: AMC Rambler American ('58-'60ish), Hudson Jet ('53-'54), Nash Rambler ('53-'55), Studebaker Lark ('59-'61)

I think Rconion nailed it. Good looking but not what I'd chose as a daily driver. Parts availability is worse compared to '60s cars, there's no safety gear in them whatsoever, the handling is pretty vague, and they're fairly underpowered by today's standards.

While I also like oddball American cars like the ones you mentioned (what? No Willys Aero?) the driving experience will be completely different from the other stuff, and the weirder you go the more difficult getting some of the parts will be. That time period is a lot of cast iron engines with radiators that weren't very efficient, and overheating would be a concern if you live in a warm region. They aren't necessarily bad choices, but with your list of other candidates I don't really see you being satisfied with something that drives like a truck.

Porsche 944: the faithful will wax poetic about these but I honestly don't feel they are a great bang for the buck. Maintenance costs on these need to be seriously considered. I didn't find the 944S I drove to be that inspirational, and running on a race track with 944s in my BMW I've been unimpressed with their abilities vs my boxy sedan of the same vintage. Not a bad car, but I think there are better choices for the same money.

Supra: even as a car enthusiast I give these only a passing glance when I see them. I just don't find them interesting.

Mercedes coupe (280CE, 300CD turbo): Built like tanks, but sort of drive like them too. Vintage Benz parts aren't available everywhere, though there isn't much you can't get provided you're willing to pay for it. I again think there's more driving joy to be had for the same cash outlay elsewhere.

Porsche 911: here's a case where expensive running costs are actually worth it. You need to become highly educated before you shop and be very, very careful with a purchase. You'll also need to learn to drive one correctly because they are totally different than most everything else out there in handling dynamics. But when it's all right...man, are they fantastic.

BMW 2002, BMW E21 series, BMW E30 series: I've really become a fan of BMWs since I started racing an E30, and I've worked on a few 2002s. BMW builds good, honest, competent cars that are easy to live with. The various series are all distinctly different though, and you should drive them all to decide which appeals to you the most. I wouldn't be afraid of the E36 either, though they do have some 'issues' you need to be aware of. Superb aftermarket and club support sweetens the deal, and resale is almost never a problem.

Celica STS: Yawn.

There are several German & Swedish cars out there in your price range TO BUY. The question is are they in your price range TO MAINTAIN?

1st question, can you do your own maintenance on a regular basis? 2nd is will you? In my part of the country these cars hourly rate and parts costs are typically based on the fact that the original owner had a fair amount of cash laying around. I'll give you an example, in 1975 I owned a '71 911S and broke a taillight lens. The Porsche part was $28 in 1975 money while a Karman Ghia lens that looked identical was $7.

Whether you can afford four times the parts price because of the name on the part box is something you need to decide. And if you can find a decent mechanic under $100 a hour who works on "luxury" brands, I think you are extremely lucky! Don't even dream of going to a BMW or Mercedes dealer for service!

Meanwhile, I'd take a good look at a 240 Nissan or if you can live with front wheel drive, a Nissan Altima or Toyota Celica. These cars are fun to drive, moderately peppy, & certainly check all the space and economy buttons. Plus parts and labor costs seem to be 1/2 to 1/3 of what big name brands are.

Rupert makes a valid point on the purchase vs running costs of some cars, but I wouldn't dismiss ALL higher ends cars as expensive to own. 3 series BMWs (E30, E36) are certainly not expensive to own, but most Porsches will be. Find what you like, and get educated in advance of any purchase as to what commonly fails and what it will cost you to have it fixed. Ease of working on a particular car also should be factored; I don't mind doing work to early BMWs but would not suggest some British or Italian (cheaper to buy) cars because they are more difficult to work on (access, special tools needed, poor quality fasteners).

I'm one for getting the most car for my money, and I must confess I LOL'd when you said "Altima". Seriously? The fleet/rental car of the Nissan line is worth comparing in driving experience to any of the cars he's considering? I've driven Altimas and fwd Celicas and while they are decent cars I'd never compare the driving experience to a BMW, 944 or Supra/RX7/Z car. In a stretch I'd consider an Inifiti G20/Primera and maybe the 240...but an Altima?

Actually, David, when you consider the driving experience of most new cars in absolute terms in comparison with our vintage vehicles, even the most "boring" new vehicles come out head and shoulders above vintage cars. Drive a 4.2 E-Type and a new Honda Accord 6-speed V6 coupe back-to-back down your favorite road, and while the EJag looks way nicer, the Accord will leave it for dead. I had an V6 Altima rental a few years ago and we drove it back-to-back with my neighbour's 3.8 MK II Jag - the Nissan is by far the "sportier" car. Turn-in was quicker, it was both quicker and way faster, it had way more grip - no leather and walnut, but if you wanna go fast up a mountain road, the Nissan would be the choice.

Does that mean we give up on our hobby of silly cars? No, but the reality is that technological advances have brought us some amazing new vehicles that we now take for granted.

Cheers, Dave

Rupert wrote: Whether you can afford four times the parts price because of the name on the part box is something you need to decide. And if you can find a decent mechanic under $100 a hour who works on "luxury" brands, I think you are extremely lucky! Don't even dream of going to a BMW or Mercedes dealer for service!

The only time I've taken my 328 to a BMW dealership for maintenance was an alignment, but I found they actually charged less than an independent shop that couldn't get it right the first time. Parts are a bit more expensive than a Camry but it's not terribly expensive.

Dave_Jorgensen wrote: Actually, David, when you consider the driving experience of most new cars in absolute terms in comparison with our vintage vehicles, even the most "boring" new vehicles come out head and shoulders above vintage cars. Drive a 4.2 E-Type and a new Honda Accord 6-speed V6 coupe back-to-back down your favorite road, and while the EJag looks way nicer, the Accord will leave it for dead. I had an V6 Altima rental a few years ago and we drove it back-to-back with my neighbour's 3.8 MK II Jag - the Nissan is by far the "sportier" car. Turn-in was quicker, it was both quicker and way faster, it had way more grip - no leather and walnut, but if you wanna go fast up a mountain road, the Nissan would be the choice. Does that mean we give up on our hobby of silly cars? No, but the reality is that technological advances have brought us some amazing new vehicles that we now take for granted. Cheers, Dave

While newer cars can be surprisingly quick, they don't always provide the same level of feedback or driving pleasure. A stock Triumph Spitfire may be dog slow, but it can induce a lot more grins than many cars with three times its power to weight ratio. It can be hard to put a finger on just why. Maybe it's that it looks like it's faster when you're so low to the pavement. Maybe its very slowness encourages you to push it harder and its responsive steering rewards you for it. A lot of newer cars are missing the rewarding part.