Saw the wrap of the Midget project in the current issue. Nice car after all the expense and effort that went into it, and it's probably a good thing that it beat the Miata on the slalom course! But for an MG Midget does the end justify the means? Does anybody care to venture a guess as to how much it would have cost if everything had been farmed out? (OK, I know this one was mostly farmed out, but I mean if somebody actually had to pay cash to their local restoration shop for it).
If you're in the hobby of restoring cars, you have to do a good portion of the work yourself or it makes absolutely no sense over buying a finished car. Most any car in CM isn't going to be worth paying a shop to do the restoration. That doesn't mean people won't do it...but hopefully they realize it's a poor way to spend their money.
It may be true its cost prohibitive, but other people's extreme builds can offer lessons for the smaller tweaks of others.
I'd like to see a summary of the actual project costs. You can estimate the shade-tree mechanic rate at $0.17/hour if you'd like.
I'd love to know what the engine tweaks cost. I'd like to compare that cost to the cost of getting more HP out of a Fiat or a Volvo or ???
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the overall project cost for the Midget came to $30K or even more if the work was done at commercial rates. There's obviously hundreds of hours invested into it.
Whether the end justifies the expense is always a personal decision. Some years back, I followed a similar resto / improvement project on a Volvo 122S that ran to over $45K. The customer was a woman who wanted a new car, but didn't like any more than she liked her Amazon. I think it's the nicest one on the planet, frankly, and had to cost what it cost. To her, it was worth it.
Engine costs are going to vary mostly according to what the performance aftermarket is like for that model. I can really only speak for Volvos, but there's not a lot out there that's worth messing with. You can do quite a lot just using stock parts, but beyond that I have to have cams and pistons custom made, and sometimes import items from Sweden. That obviously costs more than buying off-the-shelf parts from a large supplier. Machine work is likely to be fairly similar -- porting a Volvo head should be much like porting a MG head, or whatever.
KaptKaos wrote: I'd like to see a summary of the actual project costs. You can estimate the shade-tree mechanic rate at $0.17/hour if you'd like. I'd love to know what the engine tweaks cost. I'd like to compare that cost to the cost of getting more HP out of a Fiat or a Volvo or ???
Can't help you on the overall project costs, but here's a detailed breakdown on what was done to the engine: http://classicmotorsports.net/project-cars/1971-mg-midget/inside-midget-motor/
Obviously, when this whole Midget project got started we didn't know how rough the car really was. It is so hard to tell when something has been bodged, until you strip everything down. You always expect the worst, but you never know. Carl asked me how far to go on the stories and I told him as far has he could. I hate magazine stories that just gloss over everything. Obviously there is a happy medium here to as every car and every situation is different.
Midgets aren't my favorite car, mainly because I am a big guy, but driving that one to Florida was pretty sweet!
Tim Baxter wrote:KaptKaos wrote: I'd like to see a summary of the actual project costs.Can't help you on the overall project costs, but here's a detailed breakdown on what was done to the engine: http://classicmotorsports.net/project-cars/1971-mg-midget/inside-midget-motor/
$12k for the motor!! Yikes!
At the end you note the horsepower and torque ratings for the new motor. Were those taken from a bench dyno or at the wheels?
So yeah, it looks like it could be a $30k midget. 
Kapt,
That's 107 HP at the crank on an engine dyno, which comes to 77.5 HP per liter displacement. You asked for a cost comparison to an old Volvo engine, so...
A .040-over B20 is 2035cc, and at 77.5 HP per liter would make just under 158 HP. I would charge a customer right around $5700 for one of those with forged pistons and all other top quality stuff like the Midget engine got. 150 HP is about the limit for SU carbs on a B20, so the customer would be looking at another $800 for a dual Mikuni flat-slide kit. No benefit to buying a header at that power level -- Volvo got the exhaust manifold right beginning in '66. So, that's $6500 total to have it built commercially.
Note that the Midget engine bill includes $600 in dyno time, so the cost including ancillaries is under $11K. There's nothing excessive about the cost of any single line item (some parts cost a bit more than the Volvo equivalents, some a bit less) -- they just had to do a lot more to it to make the power per liter than would need to be done to a Volvo engine.
I must say I am surprised it had to cost that much...
I know the old adage that speed costs and "how fast do you want to spend?" Making 107 HP from 1380cc with the A-series is a nice achievement and I bet that engine is a jewel.
I am thinking there has to be some cheap speed somewhere in that build. Or some options to get you close.
I'm wondering if there is a similar build that makes say 90 HP at the crank, but is 50% or 60% less? Or does that not exist with the A-series?
Just want to say, thanks for having Carl go nuts on the story. I've learned quite a lot from that series, don't have a Spridget and probably never will, but it's all applicable knowledge to other projects.
90+ HP at the crank is easily accomplished for a lot less. I'd guess about $2500-$3000 depending on machining labor
ddavidv hit it right on the nose... the story isn't about this Midget or even your Midget, it is about learning stuff that will help any restorer. Every time I write a project car story I try to put some general bit of info. Carl did the same thing.
And yes, that engine is the best Midget engine (including some all out race cars) that I have ever driven. On paper it beat the Miata by a little, in reality it stomped the Miata.
Okay, here's some stuff right from the horse's mouth.
First, regarding the price of the engine, note that it's for a complete, carb to oil pan, turn-key engine with all new parts. We included a new starter, new carbs, new ring gear, clutch, etc., A lot of times when you see prices for engines, they're for long blocks and those accessories add quite a bit. Nonetheless, it's an expensive engine if you hire it all out. On the other hand, you could build that engine at home for $3-5K and it does go like stink and still idles.
Second, we had over 1000 hours in the Midget. Our shop rate is $60/hour for restoration. There are probably $20-30K in parts on the car. You can do that math and it adds up to more than anyone would spend for a Midget. We problably would not have done that for a customer. We would have started with a better car, etc.. We put that much time, energy, and parts in the car for the stories plain and simple.
Third, any of you who know me or my shop knows that I tend to overdo things--we regularly have done 1000 hour restorations because we chase every little detail and will often restore cars that shouldn't be restored because of owner's sentimental attachments. We work in a very small niche and I'm thankful we've had customers out of the mainstream who will pay us to stay in our niche. We brought the Midget into that niche because it made good stories.
I'll admit I'd have rather put that much time and effort into an MGB or an XKE, but on the other hand I can't tell you how many Midget guys have come up to me in the past six(!!) years to say how much they appreciated all those stories on a lowly Midget--I just had a few more do that at Road America for the SCCA Runoffs this weekend.
If you're still reading this, I'll highjack this thread a little bit to say I'm pretty excited about the next project car I'm doing for CMS--1978 Alfa Spider. It won't be done like the Midget--more like an affordable rolling restoration. It won't take six years, either, I promise. You won't see it in print for some time, but I'll start posting about it this winter.
--Carl
Carl,
Thanks for the insight. That car was so good it made me check craigslist for Midget prices!
It is clear that any top notch restoration to the highest level will cost about the same no matter what the car or its market value. I appreciate seeing it done this time to a low value Midget and getting the results that you got. Maybe some day the MG will end up as raffle prize and someone will be lucky and own the best of its kind. I remember the Yugo in Britain that got a reality TV show rebuild. There was an insane amount of money and effort put into it. The owner parked on the street in not the best part of town and did sell it for about 10 cents on the dollar since it was now too rich for him.
Cheers Ron
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