Unloved classics that deserve more respect.

Jerry From LA wrote: Lets add the 140-series Volvos to the list. Great packaging and good handling as well.

The 140 definitely does fit the thread title. They never made the leap from being just old cars to being classics. Most people think of them as a cruder version of the 240 series rather than as a super-Amazon.

It's like the original Porsche 912, which also fits the category. Is it the final, best development of the 356, or a poor cousing of the 911?

wspohn wrote:

bravenrace wrote: In reply to wspohn: They are no more of a kit car than a real Cobra is. That perception is incorrect, considering they don't fit the definition of a kit car, which is a car sold as a kit. TVR's were fully developed and manufactured in a plant, not by owners.

That's incorrect, insofar as the being sold as a kit is concerned. The early cars (Granturas) could indeed be bought as a kit (usually a trimmed tub on a complete chassis) and you could order up any of about 5 engines and have the factory stick it in, or you stuck it in, or you could order them with no engine and do what you liked. Later on (perhaps what you are thinking about) they were all completely assembled at the factory. They were never a 'kit' in the sense that you bought a body and frame and then sourced all the other stuff yourself. For that matter, a Lotus 7 could also be purchased in knocked down form back in the day, IIRC.

Yes, you are correct. I forgot about that one very early car that was sold that way only in Britain to avoid taxation on assembled cars. They were never sold that way in the states to my knowledge.
But are you seriously suggesting that all TVR's have no value because of that one very early car being sold that way? You may be right, but I don't buy it. I honestly think that they are under-appreciated due to several factors that are in my opinion false perceptions.

The wedge style TVR's aren't really my thing, but tell me this car isn't undervalued:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-TVR-280i-Targa-Convertible-Not-Triumph-Lotus-MG-British-Vehicle-/190794482772?_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_500wt_1182

In reply to Rupert:

I didn't mean it as praise, as I know all too well of the poor build quality of my Mustang. What I meant was that despite that, there are plenty of valuable first gen Mustangs, so the build quality certainly didn't hold them back from a value perspective. I'm not saying that all Mustangs are worth a lot, as the bread and butter 65-66's are not. But the generally agreed upon reason for that is that they built so many of them. Nevertheless, GT's, Hi-Po's, and Shelby's can obviously have a lot of value, and they weren't built any better than my plain old fastback.

bravenrace wrote: But are you seriously suggesting that all TVR's have no value because of that one very early car being sold that way? You may be right, but I don't buy it. I honestly think that they are under-appreciated due to several factors that are in my opinion false perceptions.

No, I am suggesting based on my observations over 30 years of TVR ownership that values aren't as high as for non-TVR products, and that there might be a connection between that and the fact that anything fibreglass was considered infra dig - it came out of the proliferation of dune buggies and only the Corvette escaped it.

Jensen had built up market touring cars in fibreglass (541 and CV-8) and jumped to steel construction in the 60s as a result of the perception of fibreglass = crappy kit car (at least according to factory insiders).

Personally, having owned a TVR and currently owning a Fiero, the Jamaican, and a Jensen CV-8, all with composite bodywork, I have nothing against this sort.of construction, but in my experience I am in the minority on that.

Smallblock C3 corvettes were unloved until recently. Unless you had a L88 it had no respect at all. Bigblock Prices started to go up with collectors in 2005 when the economy was hot (it started when Dale Jr bought a 71 BB then) but the small block C3's stayed unloved. Prices for smallblock C3s have started to go up.

The message is that if you want TVRs/Volvo/924s to be loved have it endorsed by a NASCAR star.

Jensen Healeys are definitely underappreciated. But in my case that's a good thing.

Ford/Mercury Capri (The rwd ones, obviously )

I absolutely have to agree about Jensen Healy's. I'd line one side by side with my TR8 as two of the least appreciated British cool kids on the block. I simply don't understand why anybody would pay more for a TR6 or MGB especially considering the production numbers.

But to my understanding, the problem with JH's is the limited availabilty of repro body parts? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

TR8s have languished not because they are bad cars, but because the looks are so polarizing. Nearly everyone likes the look of a TR-6 or MGB.......not so much with the "Shape of things to Come!"

Shifting gears a bit......I still think the 63-65 Buick Rivieras are way underpriced. Great -European inspired styling, strong engines and an interior to die for. A great GT- Touring car, for under $20K in good shape.

And the 912 market has gotten pretty hot in the last year, somewhat due to the big increases in the long hood 911 Market.

I still remember test driving a TR8 when they were new. I absolutely loved them. I couldn't swing the difference and bought an anniversary edition TR7 in BRG instead. I still want a TR8. It's neck and neck with the 911 as my next purchase. I'm close on selling my rental property tomorrow, maybe soon!

As for 912's, there used to be a guy in our local car club that had one he restored with this father. It was a beautiful car and I remember following around a race track for a few laps. It looked very well composed and it was not slow. Never got a chance to drive one, but i'd like to and see if it is as good as it looked.

cpdave wrote: Well they are some of my favorite cars, but clearly most of the rest of the market disagrees... 1960-'66 Dodge and Plymouth A-Bodies: Lancer, Dart, Valiant, and Barracuda; particularly the '64-'66 run which includes the first generation Barracuda (the real first Pony car, by 2 weeks).

I think the reason they're less popular is that a V8 is a tight squeeze compared to the '67 and later ones. Still, a small block isn't bad with the right manifolds or headers, and they are a lot cheaper. I really like the look of the "turbine car" styled '63-'64 Darts in particular.

Joe Gearin wrote: I still think the 63-65 Buick Rivieras are way underpriced. Great -European inspired styling, strong engines and an interior to die for. A great GT- Touring car, for under $20K in good shape.

Its not been too long ago i would see these for under $3,000. So they are going up.

TR8owner wrote: I absolutely have to agree about Jensen Healy's. I'd line one side by side with my TR8 as two of the least appreciated British cool kids on the block. I simply don't understand why anybody would pay more for a TR6 or MGB especially considering the production numbers. But to my understanding, the problem with JH's is the limited availabilty of repro body parts? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The Jensen will also blow the B and the TR6 off into the weeds. It's a MUCH faster car and even though it has a lot of the typical for the era squeaks and rattles it has a more planted/solid feel. I better shut up, I don't want the prices to rise.

Yet.

There's steel repro stuff available from Martin Robey in England, MR bought all the remaining Jensen stock of panels and also the stamp dies. http://www.martinrobey.com/ They have mentioned building a repro body, like the BMH MG etc shells. Delta has some fiberglass stuff available such as fenders etc, but so far the only major panel that is not available in steel is the bonnet. Jensen subcontracted that out to a company called Pressed Steel, after Jensen folded somewhere along the line those dies vanished.

Lotus still has a bunch of parts available for the engine, the early 4 speed trans is running into parts availability problems but a Toyota W58 is nearly a bolt in proposition. The later Getrag 5 speed has good parts availability.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

I'd probably be wiser to stay with the devil I know (ie Triumphs) but I've actually seriously thought about a J-H as a stablemate for my TR8. They're priced right. It would be all about finding a good one.

I'm going to go with the Alfa GTV6. Good examples are still relatively cheap. The interior is 80's horrible and boxy, the windshield too close. But man the engine makes up for all of that and more. I never had a GTV6 but did have a 3.0 Milano, and there was a tunnel in Pittsburgh I couldn't drive through without rolling down the windows to hear the exhaust.

Great, neutral handling as well.

I'll put in a vote for a late-model C4 Corvette. Sure, that's pretty modern to be thought of in classic terms, but the last model year was 1996, whhich is now 17 model years old (so it's getting there), and the later cars (LT1s and LT4s) had much nicer interiors than the earlier cars. I recently bought a very low mileage '94 6-speed, and the level of interior materials is better than my '88 MR2, and the performance is hard to beat from a bang-for-the-buck standpoint. The C4 doesn't get much love, and yes, I know the C5 is a better car (but won't make it past the breakover into my driveway), but the C4 is still a well engineered, fast, and economical (I have gotten 28 mpg highway) car for an inexpensive price.

Another car I'd nominate is the M100 fwd Lotus Elan.

I will chime in with a car I own, my DB7 coupe. The car is stunning, possibly the most beautiful car ever and delivers on so many levels. They trade for 25-35K and that is a pretty amazing deal. In time I think these cars will appreciate as they already seem to be creeping up in value.

Totally agree on the DB7. I've always been an Aston fan, and it has nothing to do with Bond. When my parents first took me to the SCCA races at Watkins Glen in 1957, a driver named George Constantine had one of the early DBRs, and it made a big impression. When I hit the lottery, I'll have either a DB7 or a DB9 - depending on the size of the lottery.

Go on Craigslist, search for anything manual trans w/ AWD or RWD and between $33-$2500... those cars need more love.

I'm on the hunt for a nice early model Jensen Interceptor. I've always loved the lines, and that Chrysler V8 makes a wonderful rumble.

Beyond that I would suggest the Triumph Spitfire. Their following and popularity has increased thanks to groups like the NASS, but I'm amazed at how many "high-end" car owners still snub them at shows. They're great cars, and (IMHO) should be worth a heck of a lot more than they are!

The Jensen Interceptor is a neat car and a real popular car right now, with decent ones selling very fast. nice drivers that cost 10K last year are now selling for close to 20K. Buy the next nice one you see that you can afford.

Javelin wrote: Every AMC! The prices on the 2-seat 68-70 AMX have been climbing for a long while, and now the 68-70 Javelin and 71-74 cars are starting to catch up.

I was coming in here to say AMC.

Also I will say Yugo.