Which classic GT car would you pick to restore?

NOHOME wrote: I am looking at all options as Garage Queens since the reality of owning one any of these would be like depending on your powerball winnings to pay the mortgage.

I was mulling over the exact same thing while following the thread.

I find the Fiat very handsome and stylish and the Alfa just kind of goofy looking.

The Dino is sharp looking like an episode of mad men. The Alfa is more like an episode of laugh in.

The wedge era styling of the Maserati does nothing for me.

Drivetrain wise it is a tough choice between the awesome Alfa chassis and the Fiat/Ferrari combo.

I am firmly in the Dino camp. I mean just how often do you gwt to own a genuine homologation car?

I prefer the appearance of the Fiat.

The Montreal engine is an interesting piece though - basically a detuned derivative of the tipo 33 race engine - two Alfa 4 cylinder heads grafted onto a common crankcase. Look sexy as hell.

So looking at previous sales of these cars on ebay all the ones I'm looking at are pretty over priced. I have some auto alerts setup to hopefully catch a better deal. i think at this point it'll be whatever one I can get for the best deal is gonna be the one I choose, though I am personally hoping the Montreal is that one.

I'd pick the Maserati. That era of wedge styling does everything for me . You'd have a fairly unique classic-exotic for your efforts and monies.

The Alfa is a close second, though it does beg for a lower/wider suspension/tire package. However, I'm not sure that would jive with the collector status.

I agree with Matt B. Maserati is top dog in this compared to an Alfa and Alfa's rule over Fiats, (yes, I know it is a Ferrari motor). It is like comparing a 308 to a 105 coupe to a Fiat Spider. All are nice , but costs being the same the 308 is the top dog. ....and here with the Fezza motor in the Fiat and that V8 in the Alfa, costs are all about the same, in fact the Maserati, may be the cheapest to run!

oldeskewltoy wrote: I've been a Dino fan since my neighbor(1960s-70s) owned one from new. His was a blue one... and as I remember it rarely was driven.... But as a whole... I've always loved the look of a long nose, GT/fastback body styled rwd with a sweet, sweet engine... so I built my own

Cool, what is it?

Storz wrote:

oldeskewltoy wrote: I've been a Dino fan since my neighbor(1960s-70s) owned one from new. His was a blue one... and as I remember it rarely was driven.... But as a whole... I've always loved the look of a long nose, GT/fastback body styled rwd with a sweet, sweet engine... so I built my own

Cool, what is it?

Surreptitious - my 1983 Corolla

I find the Fiat very handsome and stylish and the Alfa just kind of goofy looking.

The Dino is sharp looking like an episode of mad men. The Alfa is more like an episode of laugh in.

The wedge era styling of the Maserati does nothing for me.

Drivetrain wise it is a tough choice between the awesome Alfa chassis and the Fiat/Ferrari combo.

I am firmly in the Dino camp. I mean just how often do you gwt to own a genuine homologation car?

I guess to each there own, but the wedge era to me has some of the best looking cars and absolutely the best concept cars of all time. Cars such as the Stratos, Countach, Esprit, BMW M1, Pantera, Mangusta, just to name a few. Concepts such as, the Alfa Carabo, Lancia Stratos Zero, the Maserati Boomerang, Bizzarrini Manta, etc., etc. Just my 2 cents

All I know about the Merak I learned from the budget super cars episode of top gear, I know that one wasn't a prime example but It did end up eating itself if I remember correctly

maseratiguy wrote: I agree with Matt B. Maserati is top dog in this compared to an Alfa and Alfa's rule over Fiats, (yes, I know it is a Ferrari motor). It is like comparing a 308 to a 105 coupe to a Fiat Spider. All are nice , but costs being the same the 308 is the top dog. ....and here with the Fezza motor in the Fiat and that V8 in the Alfa, costs are all about the same, in fact the Maserati, may be the cheapest to run!

I can see where you are coming from with regards to the hierarchy of the Italian marques. But from a purely aesthetic point of view, the Fiat is far away the best in terms of "timeless beauty."

In any case, all three are fantastically cool & exotic cars that any enthusiast would be lucky to own once in their lifetime.

ahutson03 wrote: All I know about the Merak I learned from the budget super cars episode of top gear, I know that one wasn't a prime example but It did end up eating itself if I remember correctly

Oh my, If you are looking to Top Gear for factual information you might as well take your views on VW Beetles from Herbie the Love Bug! I love Top Gear, but you have to understand it is an entertainment show and mostly a spoof, you are not seeing some sort of actual / factual testing of cars. Do you really think they were seriously hoping to make Hover cars? or run cars on the rail tracks as an alternative to trains? Maybe you believe they could launch a car to use a s a shuttle? Imagine your disappointment when NASA didn't take up the idea!

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

That's the best looking Corolla I've ever seen! And I'll bet that Japanese reliability is a plus as well. More pictures??

I owned a Fiat Dino Coupe for awhile. I thought it was one of the most attractive cars ever built and was very fond of it. Mine was barely a driver and needed some work, blew some blue smoke, etc so it remained parked most of the time I had it. The few times I did drive it the performance wasn't outstanding and I constantly felt like I had to treat it as a fragile piece of art because you couldn't (and probably still can't) buy much of anything for them. The more I looked at it and did the math the less I wanted to restore it. When I decided to sell it I couldn't find a buyer...everyone wanted the Spider, or they wanted my Coupe so cheap they could steal the engine for some Stratos kit car or something.

The whole experience was frustrating and turned me completely off to exotic car ownership.

Out of the three you picked I still like the Dino best but would vote for the Montreal. Better engine, possibly better spares availability and people actually know what it is so there is a market. I also don't gravitate toward the wedge cars so the Merak is 'meh' to me.

If I had it to do over again I'd have bought one of the Dino coupes with a bad or missing engine that turned up and swapped in an American V8. Sacrilege, but much more practical.

maseratiguy wrote:

ahutson03 wrote: All I know about the Merak I learned from the budget super cars episode of top gear, I know that one wasn't a prime example but It did end up eating itself if I remember correctly

Oh my, If you are looking to Top Gear for factual information you might as well take your views on VW Beetles from Herbie the Love Bug! I love Top Gear, but you have to understand it is an entertainment show and mostly a spoof, you are not seeing some sort of actual / factual testing of cars. Do you really think they were seriously hoping to make Hover cars? or run cars on the rail tracks as an alternative to trains? Maybe you believe they could launch a car to use a s a shuttle? Imagine your disappointment when NASA didn't take up the idea!

I assumed everyone knew that prefacing a statement with "I saw it on on top gear" means the statement was meant to be tongue in cheek....

But seriously the Merak has Citroen hydraulics and an engine that possesses a "self tensioning lower timing chain" I'm good on all that drama. When something is known for timing chain failures, typically I run.

Not all Meraks have Citroen Hydraulics. The later SS ones do not, They also have the Bora dash, brakes are the same as a Pantera's, no Citroen stuff at all in fact. The Timing chain issues were fixed very early in the Merak life cycle also.

I think the Merak transmission was used in some Lotus Esprits. Not mine though.

I think the Citroen SM is at least as interesting as the Merak though. I remember seeing a new Merak falling apart on the showroom floor in SoCal in the day. The build quality was noticeably deficient, and as a multi Lotus owner, I am not a stickler on that. The Merak is pretty darned small inside, too. I don't think its bigger than an Esprit, but its been a while since I've seen one. What about an Espada? They used to be pretty reasonable.

The Fiat is a Fiat with Ferrari repair costs, considered pretty now, but that's just recent. The Alfa is built on a unibody/suspension designed for a 4cyl. The Merak is designed as a "baby" Bora. Same body from the A pillar forward and the back is just slightly modified. It was from the gas crisis era when the big boppers of Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati weren't proving to be fuel efficient enough for the market so each came out with their junior super cars. Unlike the Esprit the Merak does have a small but barely usable back seat. The seat is so small as only kids can use it, (era before car seats) but serves better as a package shelf. This however also means the fronts have a decent amount of travel and also able to recline thus giving them a fair amount of room. Of the three the Merak is probably the least expensive to restore, but also will be worth the least when done. The SS (later versions) are actually very robust cars. I have almost 50,000 on mine since rebuilding the motor 15 years ago, and it runs great.

In reply to maseratiguy:

Do you still have your Merak? I know you were trying to sell it a while back.

How much would you think a decent Wheeler Dealer type car should be going for these days, something not a complete basket case, but just neglected with a few things here or there to fix.

Yup, I still have mine, though still trying to sell, ( http://www.forzamotorsports.com/exotic-cars-for-sale.htm ). I really don't know as far as pricing goes, which is why I am having trouble selling mine. I was given a very high estimate by an appraiser, (95K!) and my mechanic who really knows the car also thought it was worth a lot,(85K) So I bit , however the market didn't agree. I have seen others in similar shape and the ask was 80K but I don't believe they have sold. I am now trying to be somewhat more realistic and looking for 70ish give or take a serious offer in that ball park.

A fixer upper would really depend on what needs fixing. They don't like to sit so even a car with low mileage if it hasn't been used much will have needs you don't expect. Things like the gas tank area having rust in the floors and then you realize the tanks need to be pulled cleaned and sealed. The motors if not run will have leaks from the carbs and other gaskets such as heads etc. The water pump is at the front of the motor against the bulkhead and they go if they have been sitting, along with old hydraulic and fuel lines.

Remember the oil cooler and radiator are in the front so the lines run through the transmission tunnel along with the shifting cable and linkage. If the motor was never rebuilt with new valves the original are sodium filled and prone to snapping thus lunching the motor. (A very expensive rebuild 10K+) Plus if you get an early one with the Citroen stuff that will need rebuilding no doubt. Unlike the common rumors the Citroen stuff isn't all that complicated it is just lines a pump, spheres and servos, not unlike a very high pressure hydraulic/brake system. I know I am painting a bleak picture but really the only complex part is the motor everything else is standard stuff, brakes, suspension, electrics, etc. and the build quality and materials is very good.

It truly is a case of buying the best one is cheaper than trying to buy a cheap one. What everyone misses on that famous Top Gear episode is that it isn't that the three baby super cars are bad, but buying a cheap one is. - Sorry I don't have a better answer but if you buy a $40K one you will could possibly spend another $40K putting it right. Body work/parts/and that motor transaxle.

I am sure it is the same story or worse for the Montreal and the Dino, but the Merak has almost everything available parts wise.

In reply to maseratiguy:

Thanks for the info! I'm still pretty far out from buying one of these, but it helps to get all the info I can before jumping into the deep end.

If I ended up with a Merak, I'm pretty sure it would be a later one with the Bora dash. The Citroen hydraulics don't really scare me, I just don't like the dash and single spoke wheel. But I do love the chrome bumperettes over the horrible plastic ones on the later models, so a swap of those might be in order.

of the 3 Merak

Personally GTV6

Rupert wrote: In reply to oldeskewltoy: That's the best looking Corolla I've ever seen! And I'll bet that Japanese reliability is a plus as well. More pictures??

More photos of Surreptitious

Well I won't be getting this Montreal lol. It'll be interesting to see if it actually sells for that much.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201521859719?forcerRptr=true&item=201521859719&viewitem=