10-year-old's backyard racetrack revving up controversy in Howard County (youtube.com)
The NIMBY's are out with their usual finger wagging tomfoolery.
10-year-old's backyard racetrack revving up controversy in Howard County (youtube.com)
The NIMBY's are out with their usual finger wagging tomfoolery.
No permits, no sympathy.
A perfect example for running a silent exhaust.. https://medium.com/@FlordPerformance/plan-to-keep-race-tracks-26a99b1f795c
Follow Up:
In order to save our tracks, I've just submitted an email to Magnaflow asking them to create a "Silent but Deadly" performance exhaust system.
This the same one we had a discussion about a couple months back?
I don't like watching youtube vids for news
Eh. I've tried to deal with permits people in Baltimore. They can be impossible. They'll tell you they won't talk to you until you get a business license, and that you should talk to the team over at xyz department to be issued that license. xyz department tells you what you already know--that there is no such thing as a business license, that they can't issue something that doesn't exist, and that's a bunch of nonsense from the permits people. You call back the permits people and tell them what xyz department told you. They tell you you're wrong, that you need it... so you just give up and have to decide whether you do the thing without the permit, or give up on the whole project. Some counties in MD are great to work with, and apparently, some are not. I am not sure where HoCo is on that scale.
If I owned the property and was forced to dig up the track, you can be sure that I'd just start running off-road karts with 2-strokes over where the track was.
I... don't like being told what to do.
He's in a pretty rural area. It lasted a couple hours. Karens going to Karens IMO. I'd love to see a legal analysis of the building code out in the county. Sounds like the typical stuff racetracks and gunranges run up against. Doesn't matter if its legal or not. Someone is going to bitch and moan until some county official rolls over. Like the last Laguana Seca lawsuit was supposedly one guy disguised as an organization claiming to represent a bunch of homeowners.
theruleslawyer said:Like the last Laguana Seca lawsuit was supposedly one guy disguised as an organization claiming to represent a bunch of homeowners.
Whaaaa? Did they go after him for that?
In reply to confuZion3 :
The father owns a pretty successful roofing company in the area. I have a hard time believing that he can't navigate the permitting system.
They also didn't put up the required silt fences, berms, and water management systems to protect the nearby wetlands. That's all fun and games until your once in 100 years flood plain turns into once every five years.
I'm fully with Puddy46 on this one. This is way different than moving next to an existing track or airport and trying to get it shut down.
If the person was building a garbage dump, I'd bet many of you would change your tune. The only reason this board cares is it's a race track. Otherwise, most would want to not let their neighbors ruin your backyard.
Mr_Asa said:This the same one we had a discussion about a couple months back?
I don't like watching youtube vids for news
Yes, same one. No idea why people have sympathy for people thinking they are above the rules. He was told no, did it anyway, and people are defending him for some reason.
Equal and opposite clickbaity headline: CEO tries to buy-off keeping product of illegal activity after being turned in by neighbors.
It's one thing if people complain after moving in next to a race track. It's another if people complain when a race track tries to move in next to them. The two should not be conflated.
confuZion3 said:theruleslawyer said:Like the last Laguana Seca lawsuit was supposedly one guy disguised as an organization claiming to represent a bunch of homeowners.
Whaaaa? Did they go after him for that?
IIRC it was a quiet settlement. No idea on the details.
My favorite example of this locally (like, I hear it most weekends) is the owner of an old waterfront farm decided that they wanted to convert the original farmhouse into a wedding venue. Neighbor decided that was a bad idea, rallied other neighbors in opposition, eventually got special use request denied by the county. The main thing they were citing in their opposition was the noise ruining their peaceful rural living.
Not 6 months later, the organizer of the opposition, primarily built on noise concerns, built a full-blown outdoor shooting range. Like 18ft berm, stalls at different distances, etc. He's in a defense adjacent industry and entertains "clients" by by hosting them for shoots.
NIMBY is a fickle and pernicious beast.
That said, I have no issues with dude building a go kart track. If he owns the land, who says he can't ride go karts on it? And if he can ride go karts, then can he mow his lawn in the shape of a track? Kill the grass in the shape of a track? Plant bushes to make "walls"? What would the permit requirements be to get to that point? Probably nil. He could run fun races on his newly made dirt track. Neighbors aren't mad about the paving, they're mad about the noise. If noise is within whatever local noise ordinance, then who cares if he's got pavement or not?
Steve_Jones said:Mr_Asa said:This the same one we had a discussion about a couple months back?
I don't like watching youtube vids for news
Yes, same one. No idea why people have sympathy for people thinking they are above the rules. He was told no, did it anyway, and people are defending him for some reason.
I don't think anyone has demonstrated he actually broke the rules yet. He's not in a city. There is a rural neighborhood association complaint. Rural building codes are generally way more relaxed.
Here's the track on google maps.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RejNxE7wrJ5pBAUb8
Looks mostly extremely large lots. The track is further away from home than most things in the area.
The latest meeting notes don't make it sound like a slam dunk
https://highlandmd.org/second-go-kart-meeting-notes/
If you want a high degree of control over your neighbors, don't buy outside of city limits to avoid taxes and stick to HOAs. Sounds like he looked up if permits were needed. Didn't find it. Asphault contractor said he didn't.
If he runs afoul of some wetlands protection, its impossible to know from what I can find it its something he should have known about. However it doesn't show up as wetlands on their official map. His neighbor's land across the property line from the track and stream nearby is.
https://data.howardcountymd.gov/InteractiveMap.html
So eh. Until a hearing with more nuance comes along, I'm on team racetrack.
alfadriver said:If the person was building a garbage dump, I'd bet many of you would change your tune. The only reason this board cares is it's a race track. Otherwise, most would want to not let their neighbors ruin your backyard.
Ahh, you have a good point. And besides, if it's something you really want to do, buy property where you can do it. This is, I guess, a bit like the HOA debate--some of them are a bit silly, but they are there for a reason most times, and they prevent crazy stuff at one owner's property from ruining the neighborhood for everybody. And, if you don't like them, you can buy a house where they don't exist.
Don't they have super fast battery electric go carts yet?
confuZion3 said:alfadriver said:If the person was building a garbage dump, I'd bet many of you would change your tune. The only reason this board cares is it's a race track. Otherwise, most would want to not let their neighbors ruin your backyard.
Ahh, you have a good point. And besides, if it's something you really want to do, buy property where you can do it. This is, I guess, a bit like the HOA debate--some of them are a bit silly, but they are there for a reason most times, and they prevent crazy stuff at one owner's property from ruining the neighborhood for everybody. And, if you don't like them, you can buy a house where they don't exist.
Exactly! Know what you are getting and what you are allowed to do. I knew how much land I could take up with buildings- so had no issues putting up over an extra 1000sqft of building footprint on a relative postage stamp. Get land with no restrictions if you want that.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
They mention that towards the end of the piece, amongst other mitigations (restricted hours, number of karts on track, etc.)
- Bill C
I used to live not far away from there, and there are a couple of things to note:
There used to be a kart track on the property at 75-80 Dragway, that was open in season one weeknight a week, with races once a month (which I did plenty of back in the day), but that's long gone now. So not too many people there and points west have access to kart tracks for practice, etc, racing etc.
Having said that, there is a very good facility about 10 miles away from him to the west, adjacent to BWI Airport, called United Karting. I've been there, they have lots of open track days and a solid race schedule. Granted, it would be great to give the kid(s) seat time to run the tanks dry and burn the tires off at you own place, but the other options for them aren't too bad.
Also, Travis Pastrana lives not too far away - his place is like a full motorsports playground, and he's pretty good about having people over if you know him.
- Bill C
In reply to theruleslawyer :
I'm well aware where it is, let's look at the map with lot lines. Maybe the people in the front don't want an un permitted track in the backyard. just like the last discussion about it, people here are ok with it because it is a go cart track.
If it was a helicopter pad and the compliant was noise from that, people here would be saying "that rich guy is an shiny happy person who thinks he's above the rules"
It's as "rural" as people are making it out to be. If there is a Chick Fil A, 3 Banks, and 7 car dealerships 3 miles up the road "rural" is a stretch
IIRC, wasn't one of the reasons why he kinda needed a permit because of drainage issues in the area?
It'd suck if your neighbor paved over half his yard and now your basement floods because the water doesn't have as much area to soak in to the ground anymore.
Steve_Jones said:In reply to theruleslawyer :
I'm well aware where it is, let's look at the map with lot lines. Maybe the people in the front don't want an un permitted track in the backyard. just like the last discussion about it, people here are ok with it because it is a go cart track.
If it was a helicopter pad and the compliant was noise from that, people here would be saying "that rich guy is an shiny happy person who thinks he's above the rules"
It's as "rural" as people are making it out to be.
I looked up lot lines too. Track isn't in their backyard. If it was a helicopter pad I'd be cheering him on so long as he followed code and zoning over the NIBMY crowd who didn't pay attention to what living outside the city limits might entail. Its as rural as it needs to be legally. So long as it turns out he was right and didn't need a permit, they can stuff it. I don't really care that much that its a go kart track. I care a lot more about the property rights aspect with the neighbors trying to Karen him into submission. Sorta reminds me of spite houses...
In reply to theruleslawyer :
Again, change "kart track" to "garbage dump" - does that change anything?
Pete. (l33t FS) said:IIRC, wasn't one of the reasons why he kinda needed a permit because of drainage issues in the area?
It'd suck if your neighbor paved over half his yard and now your basement floods because the water doesn't have as much area to soak in to the ground anymore.
The neighbor behind us let us know he was going to have some cows on his property. We're in central VT (Starksboro) and as rural as it gets. Sure fine whatever. Our dogs liked to bark at them.
Then every year in the spring our yard would get flooded by runoff and make a general mess of the place. Even a long dry spell wouldn't dry out our yard. I asked if he could redirect the water around our property with a berm or some such change. Having the cows eat the grass and pack the ground was creating severe runoff onto our property. He got rid of the cows, the grasses regrew, and we no longer have runoff issues. Totally okay for him to have the cows. The unforeseen issues sucked. But all is good now.
I could see how this could be similar without good drain management at that track.
Steve_Jones said:In reply to theruleslawyer :
If it was a helicopter pad and the compliant was noise from that, people here would be saying "that rich guy is an shiny happy person who thinks he's above the rules"
My next door neighbor lands his R44 in the yard. Is he following every zoning law and all 1,000+ pages of the latest FAR/AIM? Probably not. Is it bothering me? No more than I'm sure my 19 cars bother him.
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