What do I need to know?
What do I need to know?
it was subject of one of the most bizarre regular car reviews ever
I think the GT might have the improved rear suspension geometry, but otherwise they are pretty lackluster in stock form. The 4-cylinder tended to fail due to a lack of oil capacity, it also suffered from a lack of power. The V6 is pretty buillet proof and upgrades are possible from other GM FWD cars. Another case of GM not fully realizing the potential of what they had and when compared to the Fiat and Toyota Mid-engine run abouts they tended to all flat in most categories.
However, thanks to the Kit Car industry and the GM Parts bin nature of the car, upgrades and improvements abound. Including better interior treatments, brake kits, suspension, engine improvements/swaps, etc. Of course re-bodies are possible and well-documented on the web.
Basically, it can be a good base for a project car, but much like a Mustang you'll have to do something about its failings, rather than wanting to do it.
bravenrace wrote: What do I need to know?
You need to know that you'd rather have an '88.
The GT just had different body work, the suspension was the same. 88 had the improved suspension design.
bgkast wrote: The GT just had different body work, the suspension was the same. 88 had the improved suspension design.
Ah. Noted. I do remember that you can fix that by drilling a few holes to fit the later style suspension. Also, most suspension geometry issues can be worked around by keeping it from moving ;)
The 88 had all of the stuff the engieers wanted to put on the car in 84.
The Iron Dukes shipped with the wrong dipsticks that would indicate normal oil level even with 3qts in the sump. Combine that with a run of dodgy con rods and a stratosperic 4000-something RPM redline and bad things happened.
Early cars got the bean counter parts bin treatment and shipped with Citation front suspension on the rear and Chevette suspension in the front.
The 88 suspension is multi-link in the rear and the front is revised/tuned for the actual chassis it was attached to.
I've heard the 88's are actually great cars.
Yes, the '88 is the best, that aside the 85-87 GT's are still fun to drive. Make sure it's a 5-speed! The 4-speed isn't bad, but the 5 is better. Mechanical bits are easy to find, but the interior parts are getting tougher. This is a case of 'buy the best you can afford'. Unless you want a competitive racer, the '86 is still a fun car.
Gearheadotaku wrote: Yes, the '88 is the best, that aside the 85-87 GT's are still fun to drive. Make sure it's a 5-speed! The 4-speed isn't bad, but the 5 is better. Mechanical bits are easy to find, but the interior parts are getting tougher. This is a case of 'buy the best you can afford'. Unless you want a competitive racer, the '86 is still a fun car. The rear suspension can be updated to '88 type, but the front cannot. The 'tub' is different in the front to accept the different subframe.
oops, I hit "quote" instead of "edit"....
if you plan on swapping to a 3.8 make sure you get one with the getrag 5 speed which i think was only behind the v6's. the other 5 speed is an isuzu i think and its pretty weak in comparison
Okay, the car has the V-6. The trans is manual, but the ad doesn't say how many gears. The car would be used by my son as a year around dd, not for any track or autocross work. He likes the looks of them, and this appears to be a pretty good car from what I can tell. Here's the ad:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=44278&endYear=2015&sortBy=distanceASC&showcaseOwnerId=76224&startYear=1981&transmissionCode=MAN&transmissionCodes=MAN&searchRadius=100&maxPrice=6000&showcaseListingId=366540345&listingId=355559183&Log=0
I'm going to look at it this afternoon. Any comments would be appreciated, as most of what I know about them I just read in this thread.
Look like a nice one available in New Haven, CT
http://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/4353255633.html
In reply to bravenrace:
Looks pretty nice to me. Since its going to be a daily driver, not a competition car, I don't think it matters that it isn't an 88. From the photo, the interior looks much better than average. Since all the photos show the headlights up, I'm assuming the motors or the mechanism is shot. I seem to recall someone made a run of brass gears to replace the plastic ones that get brittle with age, but I have no idea if they are still available.
General mechanical parts are mostly GM parts bin, so it should be relatively easy to keep it running.
Watch for rust. The plastic body hides it well. Not sure of any particularly bad areas, so my advice is just get under it and make sure it looks solid.
Just found out its a 4 speed. Is that a deal breaker?
Not if he is just driving it.
I'll say that it was originally meant to be a commuter car, so that sounds like what he's doing. My parents had one for a while and we all lived.
PeteD wrote: Look like a nice one available in New Haven, CT http://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/4353255633.html
I've been watching that ad for a couple of weeks. That car seems like a bargain at the price.
eastsidema In re bravenrace: Looks pretty nice to me. Since its going to be a daily driver, not a competition car, I don't think it matters that it isn't an 88. From the photo, the interior looks much better than average. Since all the photos show the headlights up, I'm assuming the motors or the mechanism is shot. I seem to recall someone made a run of brass gears to replace the plastic ones that get brittle with age, but I have no idea if they are still available. General mechanical parts are mostly GM parts bin, so it should be relatively easy to keep it running. Watch for rust. The plastic body hides it well. Not sure of any particularly bad areas, so my advice is just get under it and make sure it looks solid.
Pull up the corner section of carpet in the rear trunk. Look for rust where the wheel well is along the Seam. Also check suspension pick ups. Peruse some boards for more.
Looks like a good car. Shame about the 4 speed, but shouldn't be a deal breaker. Price is good.
I owned both 87 and 88. I'd never own anything but an 88 again.
I had an 86 4 speed. Mine was not a good starting point.
There is a trick with a paperclip in the diagnostic connector in the center armrest to pull codes by way of a blinking dashboard light. Google is your friend.
The illuminated P O N T I A C lettering across the back looks awesome, and I don't think it was ever done better. The rear quarter windows are always going to be a little messed up. The Fiero was a crossover hit with computer nerds, so there are a lot of internet resources, and have been for many years. The Fiero Factory in AL is an upstanding bunch. Invest in torx wrenches.
I never managed to get the front side sparkplugs replaced.
The car in the autotrader ad looks good.
Like others have said 5 speed is better than 4. (I wish my '86 had the 5 speed.)
I hate how the rev limiter simply cuts off fuel and stalls the motor until the rpm drops. (Maybe there is a fix?)
Though they look ok in the photos look over the plastic side panels and plastic tail light area. They all crack and look really bad when cracked. My car had a broken motor/trans mount and a hole under the battery, so I would check those spots. Also the weather stripping at the bottom of the side windows goes bad and eventually scratches the window. I hear that reproductions are now available.
Oh, My '86 GT took 6th place at the Challenge autocross besting a stack of cars know for being great autocross cars, so... the early cars may not be as good as the '88, but they do work just fine. :)
Oh, I'll add a photo of said Fiero with Steve H. driving.
About a 10min read but everything you need to know is right here: Pontiac Fiero - The Definitive History (Aaron Severson)
the later model GTs with the side windows and -without- the rear spoiler look sexy
The console plate is a 5-speed. Guess you'll have to row the gears to be sure. 1986 could have either trans. Car looks fairly clean, interior has unripped seats and dash seems uncracked at the corners. headlight motors can be fixed, check Rodney Dickman Fiero parts. The luggage rack instead of a plain deck or spoiler is odd, but does happen. I'd say 3k if it runs good. Those wheels are ugly
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