How terrible are they? It seems like there are a lot of them for sale with under 200k miles that have already needed a transmission rebuild and other major work. I have been thinking about getting one mainly because they are one of the few cars that has enough adjustment in the seat and steering column to drive comfortably, but if it never runs anyway that isn't not very helpful lol. There does seem to be quite a few of them around still, I think I counted 30 of them in a weekend once recently.
99% of the transmission problems are the valve body, not the transmission itself. With the 5 speed auto, it usually just manifests as odd shifting when cold that gets better hot, or odd shifting hot that gets better cold, depending on where you normally drive the car. (The bores that the solenoids stroke in wear funny, and the computer can adapt for this wear, but the funniness is temperature dependent) Full-on trans rebuild is rarely actually required. (99% of these cars had the 5 speed auto) You can spend $900 for a new valve body, or you can live with the occasional sleazy 2-3 shift, or bang into Reverse.
I bought mine as a "forever car" because they apparently have the best rust protection in the world. You can fix transmissions, you can fix anything mechanical or electronic, but you can't fix rust.
A lot of the car is very DIYable. Scan tool wise, you can buy a laptop with a VIDA clone for a couple hundred bucks. Autometer also sells a dongle that plugs into the DLC that allows you to put engine data up on the instrument cluster!
Really the main thing that annoys me is the A/C compressor sucks. The clutch wears out and starts to fail to engage when hot, like everything else on the market, but it's not available separately, you have to buy a complete compressor assembly. I have a hard time justifying the $400 or so that the compressor costs when I know that most other cars, you can just replace the clutch. Or juggle shims to reduce the running clearance. So with my S40, I'd just turn the A/C off for a half hour or so, it's not like it was doing anything anyway. The clutch has yet to fail on my S60 but I know it's going to happen sooner or later, and I'll probably fix it too, even though it literally just dropped out on the S40 but requires either dropping the subframe or removing the cooling stack and right front headlight on the S60...
In reply to Tk8398 :
Buy a manual? (Transmission I mean, not a repair manual)
ebonyandivory said:In reply to Tk8398 :
Buy a manual? (Transmission I mean, not a repair manual)
That's a possibility, they seem harder to find and in worse condition though. Did any of the manual ones come with the turbo engine?
I’ve got an 03 S60 with the 5 speed manual and at 185k miles I’ve had very few issues. It’s a super comfy car and the interior has held up decently well (except for the silly flipping door over the cupholders). It’s slow with the NA 2.4 but sounds pretty decent and can hold its own in the corners. I feel the design has aged well, especially after they went to the body colored trim.
My second cat started throwing a code but an extended bung fixed that, the alarm module in the front fender failed but after removing it my sunroof works again and it just shows a warning for a few seconds every startup. The front upper strut mounts were clunking when I got it but were cheap and easy to fix with heavier duty ones (I think from the XC70 or XC90) and the rear shocks were incredibly simple. The rubber doesn’t seem to age well around the windshield but is fine everywhere else and does not leak. It is starting to make a weird knocking noise at idle seemingly from the trans, but it lived a hard life before I got the car. The clutch is feeling weak but it’s the original one; the trans still shifts great.
Overall it’s been a great daily driver and road trip car. I bought it for just over $1k with 130k miles due to failing inspection after a headlight couldn’t be fixed (it was unplugged).
Tk8398 said:ebonyandivory said:In reply to Tk8398 :
Buy a manual? (Transmission I mean, not a repair manual)
That's a possibility, they seem harder to find and in worse condition though. Did any of the manual ones come with the turbo engine?
Tk8398 said:ebonyandivory said:In reply to Tk8398 :
Buy a manual? (Transmission I mean, not a repair manual)
That's a possibility, they seem harder to find and in worse condition though. Did any of the manual ones come with the turbo engine?
You're more likely to find a nonturbo with a manual but the manual was offered with turbo engines. Probably most manual trans turbo S60s are Rs, which are not all that much more expensive than a generic S60. (I have an S60R. I highly recommend.)
The problem is the manual is somewhat fragile, and being a Getrag unit, you can't really buy parts for one, as they are only interested in selling assemblies. (Or not at all) The clutch slave cylinder is kind of a weak point, which requires transmission R&R to access. There are lots of automatic S60s and S80s with 200-250k and the trans has never had to come out. I wouldn't like those odds.
Between how quiet the cars are and how "flat" the engines feel, I'm not sure I'd want to drive one with a manual since I drive by ear and feel, not by looking at the tach. I can't play sims with a manual trans either, so YMMV.
Took mom and dad(wife included) to Ireland in 2001 cuz i could...rented a V70 w manual trans.....enjoyed all of this vehicle (mom was a big volvo honk) even being caught in rush hour Dublin traffic getting to our room.....if a wagon was on the horizon, the V70R would be my choice.
The engines are a little different than usual to work on but about the only thing i've really been annoyed by so far was trying to get 5 individual exhaust gaskets back into place while trying to mate the head and manifold in the vehicle. Other than that the timing belt stuff is not too bad once you understand the process, the cam cover/valve cover is annoying but very rarely needs to be done, the stuff under the intake manifold is not too hard to get to. I've gotten used to them to the point that I kind of like them. I actually think the basic engine itself is more reliable than average pending a couple of big WTFs like the PCV system is actually likely to cause real problems and, possibly related, they like to huck the cam seals right out of the head and dump oil out of the timing covers. 
Like Knurled wrote, these cars do not rust. I bought my 2004 XC70 a little over a year ago from a lady that lived on a gravel road. And I live in the rustiest rust-belt part of the continent. And there is absolutly no rust on that car. It's amazing.
Like others have said, they are mechanically strong. The slushbox are not a problem and they suit the car. Think of them as a euro Buick. What is more a problem is the 4WD system. It's better than on the P1 cars, but still not as reliable as on the P3. You can have problems a bunch of problems with it mechanically or electrically.
And that brings us to the real problems with those cars...electrical stuff. There are a lot of modules that can break on that car. And they are paired, so you cannot easily swap in a used module. Xemodex is your friend here.
But a late model (04+) with as little options as possible is a fantastic forever car.
I recently bought a 165,000 mile 2002 V70 T5 with a manual that I am pretty please with. Replaced the worn out shocks with Konis sports and I am happy with the ride for a daily driver. You can fit a lot of stuff in the back of a V70. The lack of rust on these in salty WI is one of their best strengths compared t other vehicles this age. Weakness seems to be electronics. The current problems it has is a stereo volume control knob that barely works, broken DSTC switch, and an instrument cluster that could use some work due to various problems. This seems consistent with other similar Volvos I have had.
I prefer the T5 to the R because I was always in fear the AWD or the 4C suspension would fail on the R I had. Not an issue on the FWD T5 with regular suspension.
Are the failing modules usually stuff like transmission in limp mode, car wont start, etc? Or more like windows, door locks, stuff like that.
A couple other questions, how hard is it to get all of the emissions monitors to set usually? I live in California so its required they all have run to pass the emissions test for 2000 or newer cars (anything 1999 or older the test costs more and not all stations can do it), and I know depending on the kind of car it can take anywhere from 15 minutes to a couple months in my experience.
Also, how are the brakes and headlights (as far as stopping distance/fade resistance and brightness)?
The HID headlights suck majorly IMO. There is no low beam or high beam, just one bulb that changes angle in the housing, to go from "extremely bright 10 feet in front of you" to "meh". You can't see distance if there is a huge pool of light right in front of you, so the low beam is junk, and the high beam, because it uses the same bulb, doesn't really throw light downrange.
Emissions is usually not an issue. The main problems I would ever see are a certain hose in the evap system failing, and the usual MAF code, which is usually caused by a dirty throttle body (no MAP sensor, so it uses throttle position to sanity-check the MAF, a dirty throttle plate requires more throttle opening for the same airflow, thus the ECM says "Hey, the MAF is not reading right!) That or one of the PCV system hoses went brittle and broke. But there is no EGR to plug passages and no AIR system to fail, very reliable in that respect.
Haven't really seen any "module" failures per se, in any kind of pattern. Bear in mind that it's the same Bosch, Siemens, and Behr components that every other European manufacturer (and some American) uses, nothing really special.
Are they all HIDs? I really don't like cars with terrible headlights. If I go look at one I will make sure to drive it in the dark if I can.
In reply to Tk8398 :
Not that I am aware of. IIRC only the Rs have HIDs. This is the only version of S60 that I have extensive night experience with.
I absolutely hate HIDs. I prefer sealed-beams, actually. I have a bad combination of having a lot of visual snow AND light sensitivity, so lighting is important to me, and very few things make me happy. Some people actually LIKE insanely bright headlights, so maybe you would be okay. My favorite lights were the ones in my late 80s Golf. They didn't light up the road at ALL. This allowed you to see where you were going.
On the Rs -
I had an 04 V70R manual. In the three years had mine (04 M66), here's what went wrong. It probably was parked for 12 of those 36 months. I've had three Volvos and loved them (even the R) but you have to know what you're getting into:
The good:
I think that a non-AWD car from this era would give most of the R experience without the headaches. The later T5 cars were almost as powerful (257bhp). Manual cars are more expensive and more beat, typically. I'd spring for a 05-07 V70 T5 auto if I wanted to go down that road again.
In reply to Wiscocrashtest :
Monroe doesn't just make OE equivalent, they were the supplier for Volvo. Happy to see that they are still supporting the car so to speak.
So after 2 years, how many guys still own their P2 Volvos?
I'm itching for one as a short trip daily driver up in MI for cheap. Heck, I've even had the idea of finding an XC90 to do some occasional towing with. Does it sound like a stupid venture for a grad student with no garage?
I've had a '07 XC70 for about 10 years now. It's the boat car (hauls sails and supplies) in summer and the go-anywhere choice in winter. At 160K miles I replace the suspension pieces, including raising the car about 2" with springs, subframe spacers and oversize LT tires. I replaced the contact reel in the steering column, and a couple of the ultrasonic park sensors in the rear bumper. The exhaust was getting tired, so I welded a 3" system from the turbo on back. I have a larger K24 turbo ready to go in for extra potency. But honestly, I wish I could just leave the damn thing alone!
It's just been basic maintenance items (fluids, plugs) for the most part. I have a bootleg VIDA and DICE interface, so I can handle any of the proprietary issues that pop up, reset service flags and run diagnostics. As someone mentioned, '04+ cars are a solid buy for a comfortable, dependable and long-lasting vehicle.
Our (my son took it over) '08 S60, turbo, AWD, is still going strong. Have owned it for around 4 1/2 years. No major problems. Replaced: struts, front end bushings, motor mounts, and coolant overflow tank. Tires and brakes, naturally. Have kept up on maintenance (oil changes, likes synthetic, tune up, etc). Overall a very good car, and my son is tough on vehicles.
Yep, this forum is definitely enabling me to buy one. I really want one as they don't rust. XC90 tow capacities are 5k, but does the 2.5T get out of its own way well enough that another 4.5k trailer will be ok behind it?
I sold mine right about when used car prices were just starting to go crazy for more than double what I originally paid for it with 110k fewer miles. The only additional problem I had pop up when I sold it at 245k miles was a front brake line that caused a slight drag. I don't remember the knocking noise I mentioned in my post from a few years ago, but it was a probably the upper engine mount, those never lasted long. It is a car that I will remember very fondly.
Still got teh R four and a quarter years later.
Have put more miles on it (82k so far) than any other car I've owned except the RX-7 that I bought fifteen years ago. It is a very nice place to spend time.
It weighs a verified 4000lb with a Pete in it, but sometimes the Four-C system does things that make it feel a thousand pounds lighter and a foot shorter in wheelbase.
Paint and floors and rockers still in excellent shape despite road salt that makes a car look like this a day after washing:
I've been window shopping these for a few years now. I looked at one for sale about 5 years ago on the side of the road and I was stunned how clean and rust-free it was, especially here in the land of salt and snow. I'm happy to fix mechanical issues, but rust kills cars here.
With two teenagers looking to drive in the next couple of years, I'm thinking one of these would be a solid, safe car for them to drive.
I had the last year of the brick, 2000 I believe. V70XCSE with all options including built in rear booster seats.
Good points.
Amazing in deep snow with snow tires.
Built like a tank, I crashed into a 3/4 ton work van that slid down a hill into me. I hit him twice and ended up with a small dent and two lenses in need of replacement.
Comfortable and not slow.
Hauls a lot of stuff, eight wheels and four tires one time.
Bad points.
All the cuddly bits wore out, window regulators button coatings etc.
Bevel gear splined shaft is made of pressed confectioners sugar first time under boost in the rain and it stripped. 10x stronger replacements are available, cheap and a few hours later you are in business.
Early DBW was Italian, good luck.
Early five speed trans had issues, repairable.
Fuel pump is a remove entire rear suspension and exhaust or cut a hole in the floor.
Fuel pump has two relays and they are different, keep One of each in the car and know where they go. Under a cover that uses torx bits like everything else.
Use the correct plugs in the turbo motors and gap them small.
Loved mine but will never again.
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