2010 Challenge Rules---First Draft

Here's one i bet you haven't all seen before:

How do STOLEN parts affect your budget?

I just had about $900 worth of parts stolen off of the MX6. Tial 38mm wastegate, real Greddy Type S bov, intercooler and intercooler piping with all couplers and t-bar clamps. All quality name brand stuff.

Seems perfectly reasonable that if you had proper documentation for your previous parts and the prices they were purchased at, you should be able to buy replacement used parts at the previous budget points. I know there have been some parts I've been really proud of buying so cheap that would be very hard to buy again at that point. It was hard to buy them, yes, but it wasn't an illegitimate deal or anything like that.

In short, I think you should source replacement used parts at equivalent age/quality and leave the budget as-is.

I'd double check with Per, but that seems to be the fairest thing to do. By the letter of the rules, you should have to buy new parts and budget them at the prices you find them, but this competition leans towards the spirit of things so often I think you should get a break. There's nothing on the line at the end of the day.

I think that makes a lot of sense, I certainly wouldn't object.

Sorry about the loss

Yeah, that does make sense.... but here's the issue:

I paid $900 for the car, WITH all those parts on it. I don't have separate documentation of those parts. Merely the title/bill of sale from when the car was purchased.

I think i'm going to look around and see what i can come up with to replace. Puts me in a sticky place, because i'm not real psyched about paying to duplicate the setup that was already on there. When i've got a plan of attack, in the next day or two, i'll pop back in here and see what everyone thinks. It's likely that i'm going to end up taking the rest of the turbo setup off the car and using an entirely different setup so i'm not constrained with ONLY being able to use a Tial. (Flanges, exhaust, and dump tube are all still there and welded into one piece)

Thanks for the input!

you're in luck, I just happen to have a Tial 38mm wastegate, real Greddy Type S bov, intercooler and intercooler piping with all couplers and t-bar clamps. All quality name brand stuff for sale...900.00........j/k.... that sucks man, good luck with the hunt.

Supercoupe wrote: you're in luck, I just happen to have a Tial 38mm wastegate, real Greddy Type S bov, intercooler and intercooler piping with all couplers and t-bar clamps. All quality name brand stuff for sale...900.00........j/k.... that sucks man, good luck with the hunt.

Hahah!

I went to the local rice shop last night trying to hunt down a BOV, and i was half expecting to see all my parts there.

No such luck, though.

And i'm also not about to spend $150 on a well-used Blitz BOV. Ugh.

But so far, i've got:

Turbosmart Ultragate38 wastegate
Evo 8 intercooler
CXracing 2.5 pipes, couplers, and t-bar clamps

I just need a BOV at this point. I may try to get a better intercooler, i'm really not that happy with the Evo unit i don't think. But hey... it was $40.

Do i get to take money OUT of budget if the new stuff is cheaper?

Small issue, though... the new stuff LOOKS better. Not that it's in better shape or anything, but it's all "blingier," and i imagine worth an improvement in concours. I don't really want this whole situation to be viewed as a "free" improvement to the overall score, you know? What should i do?

Looks better is subjective. Simply going from a silver wastegate and polished aluminum piping to a black wastegate and black powdercoated piping. I think it looks cooler.

My team and I are new to the whole competition, but it would seem to us that if you have proper documentation of the fact that it was all stolen, then that would be taken into consideration for the concours and you'd be ok, IourHO.

Don't mean to change subject, but quick question: are there any restrictions on salvage vehicles w/ salvage titles or having a salvage car while not being a salvage dealer, etc.??

Thanks y'all, this forum is awesome!

Neither one of our cars have titles. So long as they're not street driven, no one will care.

FYI, don't tell your school you're buying a car. They open up a whole new can of worms assuming it's going to be street driven, liability, insurance, etc. Just say it's a parts car. Or find a donation like we did.

arent challenge cars supposed to be registered/street-"legal"? cant remember... cant register w/o title (not that i would object to a not-registered car, etc)

Street worthy, not street legal.

The rules says they are supposed to have equipment necessary for the streets (wipers, lights, etc.), but there is no rule saying they need to be legal or registered.

Lots of Challenge cars are not street legal.

I've driven our car on the streets, so I'd say it's street-capable in a technical sense. Which really is all the rules are encouraging, I'd guess.

I can't find anything about minivans. Would a lowered Odyssey be ok?

In reply to SVreX:

I'm interested in windshield - do I need one? I can't find the reference to the statement made on this board but it was to the effect that you don't need a windshield to registered in Texas so it could be argued to be street worthy without.

That raises the question of passing tech. What does the NHRA say on this matter? I've tried googling but I can't find a straight answer.

For the record the windshield on my XR4Ti is seriously cracked and I'm not sure how much damage it would do to my budget to get it replaced. I'm hearing that they are getting rare. Lexan is always an option but once again it will ding the budget.

TIA, Thomas

Sure. Minivans have competed (well) before.

Okay so I think I just found an answer to my own question, at least for NHRA rules circa-1999:

http://findfastcars.com/NHRARules.html

7.5 BODY, Stock-bodied vehicles

Must have full top and windshield. All full-bodied cars must have two driver exits. Four stock production fenders mandatory, fiberglass duplicates permitted. Fenders may be trimmed for tire clearance, altered fenders must have edges re-rolled or beaded.

7.10 WINDSHIELD, WINDOWS, Stock-bodied vehicles

Mandatory, must be in good condition and free from cracks. May be replaced with shatterproof material, 1/8-inch (3.2 mm) minimum thickness. Windshield may not be cut for scoops, carb, etc. Windshield/window tint must meet the applicable government requirements. Windows must be closed during races, need not be operable. Decals permitted on rear quarter and rear window only.

I'm becoming more and more curious about the challenge, and I'm thinking of getting some friends involved for next year's $2011 Challenge. My first question (of many to come, i'm sure) is about cars you already own. I have a Golf with three possible fates: Scrapyard. RallyCrosser. Challenge Fodder.

Since I already own it, and paid $1500 4 years ago, would I have to list the purchase price as $1500, even though it would probably only sell for less than $500? Or is it even eligible?

MrMook wrote: I'm becoming more and more curious about the challenge, and I'm thinking of getting some friends involved for next year's $2011 Challenge. My first question (of many to come, i'm sure) is about cars you already own. I have a Golf with three possible fates: Scrapyard. RallyCrosser. Challenge Fodder. Since I already own it, and paid $1500 4 years ago, would I have to list the purchase price as $1500, even though it would probably only sell for less than $500? Or is it even eligible?

That's where fair market value comes into play. Find a few examples of Golfs for sale in similar condition to yours (ebay, CL, etc). Use those to establish FMV for your car and that's your starting point.

Just take an average of similar vehicles currently for sale and that should be enough.

I have several questions regarding the rules and the application of the rules for the 2010 and subsequent challenges. I have read thru most of the posts and don't see these items addressed specifically so I think this adds to the discussion.

1) What actually counts in the budget and what is considered off budget. EG are fasteners and clamps and wire ties and all those nickel and dime items counted? From past builds I know they can add up fast. How about other consumables such as welding wire, paint etc?

2) Are challenges based on fair market value successful and how often do they happen? Can a competitor show up with a 10,000 dollar car that he bought for 2,000 with a reciept in hand and be legal?

3) Is there any attempt to address the vast difference in equipment and tooling available to some competitors and not others? EG I was looking at someone build site today and they used a cnc water jet to cut out parts, not something many of us have access to. Another competitorsd website talked about finding horsepower on the dyno in his own shop. Would this be counted as "professional services" even though it's not costing him anything?

4) Is there any way to see past successful competitors documentation so that I konw what's required and what was and was not in the budget?

I think this is a great idea and I don't want anyone to get the idea that I think there is cheating or that I object to the rules, just want to know how they work.

1) yes. everything that's on the car counts.

2) No, I look over the car and the documentation and would declare it bullE36 M3 if I thought it was. I've called a few people out in the registration process, but none so far at the event.

3) Anything that's done at a for-profit shop would have to count at shop rate.

Hey y'all,

I noticed that the "Enter" button has been disabled on the GRM 2010 Website. That doesn't mean that registration is over does it? We just got our car and I didn't want to jump the gun and register with a car that we didn't have.

Thanks for your help!

You can download the registration form and send it in. You can't really "enter" via the web as we need more information/payment.
Per

Per Schroeder wrote: You can download the registration form and send it in. You can't really "enter" via the web as we need more information/payment. Per

Thanks,

Will do!

Per Schroeder wrote: You can download the registration form and send it in. You can't really "enter" via the web as we need more information/payment. Per

Which is why the button was disabled/removed. Less confusion that way.

Tom Heath wrote: Which is why the button was disabled/removed. Less confusion that way.

Gotcha, okay Thanks!