In reply to Per Schroeder:
I'd like to give it a shot. I get my vehicles at an online auction, therefor they're dirt cheap and I fix'em myself. You folks might want to check them out http://easyexport.us/carfinder/vehicle/SALVAGE_CERTIFICATE_SIDE_2001_FORD_MUSTANG_8645680/?a_aid=4c054bdec9d5b They're great for hobby cars.
While I don't mind that particular link, I'm still calling canoe.
What is the ruling on harnesses. Do they need to be within 2 years of the manufacture date, or is anything that is in good shape ok. Reason I ask is someone gave me harness that is expired, but is still in the original packaging, never opened.
Also if I buy something from a local company, do I include the sales tax toward my budget?
Expired harnesses are not allowed by track officials. They are, however, a safety item that is exempt from your budget.
Ok figured that much, but thought I'd ask. Anyone have any insight on the sales tax?
So, I was told by another challenger that race seats don't count in the budget since they are a "safety" item but I can't find that spelled out anywhere. Can anyone confirm that to be true or false?
Seats have to be included in the budget, we had the same question last year.
Rules say "car must have working headlights" Pictures from last year suggest this may be "flexible"
Splain to me!
They may have changed it. I believe the rules last year said "Headlights must be present."
I've got a good one for you guys:
When i bought the MX6, i found a pair of diamond earrings, at least half a carat apiece in the car. The previous owner did not claim them, they look like they've been there for years. At first, i thought they were CZ. I took a closer look the other day, and they ARE real diamonds.
Can i sell to recoup budget? 
AutoXR- FWIW ours weren't checked. Nothing was checked for functionality at concours, they didn't even look under the car, etc. They only looked where we told them to look as we explained the car. It's mostly honor system.
93CelicaGT2- That's below the belt, but it sounds like it's within the rules. Spirit vs. Letter kind of thing. Thank God you can't recover more than you spent on it, or the rest of us would be screwed. 
Eh... if i want to put it against the budget, i'd probably end up with a free car. $2010 into one of these would be scary in any scenario.
We'll see. I may just short sell to free up $4-500 if the challenge gods deem it acceptable. Or just trade for a nice set of tires.
I am wondering about headlights that have been converted into air intakes and that are clearly non functional. I have a way around it, but I just wanted some clairfication as I saw a few cars that were def. missing them
As long as there's SOME form of headlights on the car that are functional, you're within the rules.
Any insight on the sales tax thing?
Per Schroeder spake: Taxes are not included, any fees are (as that's essentially a standard charge).
I've been reading the build thread for the Vorshlag $2010 Challenge entry: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1343977 and I had a few questions. From my reading of the rules it reads that work done in a for-profit shop should charge FMV against their budget, not just material. Now I don't know how Vorshlag is doing their pricing, but it seems that they are producing a high level shop build in their shop, but pricing it like they are just a hobbyiest that happens to have all this equipment. My example would be cutting new nylon bushings from nylon stock on their lathe to save the cost of buying new bushings. I certainly don't mean to cause them any trouble, I'm just curious how this "shop" build will compare to the home garage guys in their pricing. I have no idea if they have used other shop equipment for the mounts, etc. Just curious.
Clay wrote: I've been reading the build thread for the Vorshlag $2010 Challenge entry: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1343977 and I had a few questions. From my reading of the rules it reads that work done in a for-profit shop should charge FMW, not just material. Now I don't know how Vorshlag is doing their pricing, but it seems that they are producing a high level shop build in their shop, but pricing it like they are just a hobbyiest that happens to have all this equipment. My example would be cutting new nylon bushings from nylon stock on their lathe to save the cost of buying new bushings. I certainly don't mean to cause them any trouble, I'm just curious how this "shop" build will compare to the home garage guys in their pricing. I have no idea if they have used other shop equipment for the mounts, etc. Just curious.
That is only fair honestly. If its in a real shop... it needs to be tallied in.
I remember them saying something, maybe even in this thread, that the build wouldn't be done at their site, that it would be some employees making the car in their home garage. At least, that's the impression I got from their post. I'll have to look and see if I can find it.
Pretty sure Vorshlag wanted to give the challenge a try and was given the go ahead by board members and the higher ups. It looks like a good build, but not beyond the skills/tools of many of the members here.
In reply to AutoXR:
There are varying explanations for this.
First off yes, sometimes things slip through.
Secondly, there's nothing in the rules saying you can't remove them at some point. If present for the concourse, but removed for weight or air for the drags, that would be legal.
Thirdly, there's a lot of things that can fit inside that rule. I once brought a car that had no headlights (smashed out), but welded a pair of rally lights onto the front bumper. They would not have functioned very well on the road, but they did work, and were present.
The more creative folks can always find loopholes. One particular clown (who shall remain nameless) mounted them in the trunk as ballast (yes, they did work).
There's a lot of things that are "flexible" at the Challenge. It won't be because of headlights that any particular car wins or fails to do so.
Remember rule #1: the purpose of the Challenge is to generate editorial content for the magazine. When all else fails, resort to rule #1.
Per Schroeder wrote: Yes, ttops = open. The intent is to keep people from making this a performance allowance rather than a safety one. You can do whatever you want that is safe, but if you exceed those rules, you will have to count it towards your budget. If a Miata has two extra holes to put the rear downtubes to fit a commercially available bar, then fine.
Can I get clarification on the ttops counting as open top. I've never heard of them being held to the convertible standards at any drag strip before.
Also, I started this build long before I decided to try for the 2010 challenge, so I didn't save many receipts. I got a good portion of my parts from raiding my stash of parts from other projects. Is having a good portion of my build price sheet based on fair market value going to be a problem?
splitime wrote:Clay wrote: I've been reading the build thread for the Vorshlag $2010 Challenge entry: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1343977 and I had a few questions. From my reading of the rules it reads that work done in a for-profit shop should charge FMW, not just material. Now I don't know how Vorshlag is doing their pricing, but it seems that they are producing a high level shop build in their shop, but pricing it like they are just a hobbyiest that happens to have all this equipment. My example would be cutting new nylon bushings from nylon stock on their lathe to save the cost of buying new bushings. I certainly don't mean to cause them any trouble, I'm just curious how this "shop" build will compare to the home garage guys in their pricing. I have no idea if they have used other shop equipment for the mounts, etc. Just curious.That is only fair honestly. If its in a real shop... it needs to be tallied in.
I just read it as well ,
$2010?? LOL
corner weighting alone runs around the $600 mark in these parts.
I found this while looking for the information sheets for the Challenge. I'm hoping registration is really from 5:30 pm to 9 pm (Or I'm going to have to get up very early that morning.)
Kumho Tires Presents the Grassroots Motorsports $2010 Challenge powered by RacingJunk.com Schedule Sep 30 5:30 a.m.–9 a.m. — Registration and Welcome Reception
I found the sheet for team information, but I did not see the sheet for the Car Build information. (The sheet that asks for Motor mods, suspension mods, etc.)
AutoXR wrote: corner weighting alone runs around the $600 mark in these parts.
What are you talking about? Do you mean the SERVICE of weighing the 4 corners costs $600 in a professional shop (excluding the adding or subtracting of weight)?
That's ridiculous, and VERY un-grassroots.
I bought a professional set of scales for less than that (which is not billable to my Challenge budget).
But I also know how to do it with a couple of bathroom scales.
AutoXR wrote:splitime wrote:I just read it as well , $2010?? LOL corner weighting alone runs around the $600 mark in these parts.Clay wrote: I've been reading the build thread for the Vorshlag $2010 Challenge entry: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1343977 and I had a few questions. From my reading of the rules it reads that work done in a for-profit shop should charge FMW, not just material. Now I don't know how Vorshlag is doing their pricing, but it seems that they are producing a high level shop build in their shop, but pricing it like they are just a hobbyiest that happens to have all this equipment. My example would be cutting new nylon bushings from nylon stock on their lathe to save the cost of buying new bushings. I certainly don't mean to cause them any trouble, I'm just curious how this "shop" build will compare to the home garage guys in their pricing. I have no idea if they have used other shop equipment for the mounts, etc. Just curious.That is only fair honestly. If its in a real shop... it needs to be tallied in.
It's not being done at the Vorshlag shop.
Terry said: "Exactly - if you saw this shop at my house most of you would be sorely disappointed... the $1400 lift is the most expensive tool we have to use. Yes, I have a couple of welders (one of which I bought 11 years ago) and a (cheap Harbor Freight) plasma cutter. I've seen CMC racers with better fab equipment than I have here. This is hardly some Gran Am team's pet project built in some 100,000 sq foot shop by their race team."
From here:
As I understand it, most people working on the car are not Vorshlag employees, just volunteers who wanted to be part of the team. They are very aware that they will be more heavily scrutinized (by other competitors, spectators, etc) than most other teams because they are a business, and they are promising to have extremely thorough documentation. They want this to be a positive marketing exercise for Vorshlag, not something that will create bitterness among a large number of enthusiasts.
Bob
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