2013 Dodge Dart vid

mad_machine wrote: this whole thing with peopl being up in arms over the name "dart" reminds me of the BS that happened when they brought the Holden over to be the GTO. It was a better car in EVERY way than the original.. but people still held it has being inferior Grow up and get over it

You mean like when Chysler brought back the Charger with two extra doors? People convienently forgot the fwd 2 door econobox of the 80s or the 318 powered boxes with brown metallic paint. It's a wonderful world to live in where there is nothing but 68-70 models powered by 440s and Hemis.

Nevermind that the "original" GTO itself was just a tarted up Tempest with a better engine.

RexSeven wrote: ^THIS. I am squarely in the demographic (26 y.o.) Dodge is aiming for with the new Dart. I had no idea what an original Dodge Dart was until someone else here enlightened me in an earlier new Dart post. The whole "this FWD grocery-getter is ruining the true Dart's good name" argument is a non-starter, esp. knowing that the original Dart was also a grocery-getter. If it doesn't faze me, it's not going to make a lick of difference among the normals. They're going to be more concerned about the Dodge part of the name than the Dart part of it.

I would imagine the only reason I know a good bit about the Dart as a 25 year old is because we were a Chrysler centric family when I was growing up.

People with rose tinted glasses concerning cars tend to ignore the six cylinder crap and only focus on the Swingers, GTs, and SS models. The new Dart is the old Dart, plain and simple. A bottom to mid tier car for people who either don't want or can't afford the bigger and better stuff. They'll throw in a performance model or two to appease the cheap gearheads, so the basic principle is the same.

I think calling it a Dart is a much better choice than some random collection of numbers or pulling some letters out of your ass. The Dart was a fairly good econobox in it's day, and Chrysler is most likely hoping to bank on that history. Lord knows anyone who didn't know about the old Dart probably found out about it after five seconds on google.

So far, the only real reasons I've seen for why people are angry about the name is because of how it looks and the fact that it's fwd. Well, unlike the 3 current pony cars(none of which look as good as the classics fyi) the dart had some rather uninspiring looks, unless they went off the 62 and earlier darts, which most anyone who isn't a mopar fan classifies as ugly. The only reason it's fwd is because that is the standard platform for compacts today, that's it.

It is better looking than the Focus on the inside and has a MUCH better looking interior. Fiat/Chysler has the RWD muscle car thing covered, using the Dart badge makes sense to me, and I can retro grouch with the best of them.

The "reorg" that that GM and Chrysler went through unburdened them of 3k per car and 5k per suv/truck in benefit costs. No wonder things are getting better. Ironically the pension plans and the associated healthcare costs now reside with the UAW, an idea the "Big Three" bitterly fought and defeated back in the day because they thought it would give the union too much power.

Moparman wrote: ... Darts are quick and can be run with Mustangs and Camaros of the era on road courses.

Abso-&^$%ing-lutely!

If it weren't for the WAY better after market support for the Ford & Chevy, an early A-body MOPAR would be a much better starting point for a vintage race car than a first generation Mustang or Camaro.

Dave and Moparman, shaddup!

You guys want it to be harder to find nice A bodies?

I'm still looking for a decent barracuda to turn into a DD, clue people in after I get my grubby mitts on one thank you very much.

Well the car was unveiled yesterday and I was both disappointed and relived, no mention of a SRT or AWD this did kind of bum me out, but I did like statement made in the presentation " not wanting to make just another appliance " . This may be a sign of thing to come and in a good way.

The car looks very nice over all but no word on weight and if you can get a true stick behind the 1.4T.

BTW did anyone see the GM prototype 4 cylinder 150 HP RWD and a stick , the the whole toyarube car. It is starting to look like 2012 and 2013 should be very interesting in the small car segment.

Paul B

Edit: Found this http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/chevy-130r/44090/page1/

Moparman wrote: In reply to DrBoost: I think of 340, 383 and the limited edtion, promise not to drive on the street, Hemi Dart. Don't forget the Duster clone Demon / Dart Sport. Darts are quick and can be run with Mustangs and Camaros of the era on road courses.

Trust me, I know Mopar muscle. I'm a huge Mopar man (I've owned lots of them, including my challenge car). But you say Charger and people thing Hemi. Say Challenger, people think Hemi. Say LeBaron, people think Corinthian leather, say Dart, people think slant 6.
I am fine with using the name, but i think Neon could have been a good choice too since the demographic they are aming at would know the name. Then again, maybe that's why they chose something besided Neon?

In reply to DrBoost:

Growing up in the late 70s and early 80s, V8 A-bodies were everywhere. No one slighted the A-body.

There were hot Slant 6 models too. Think Hyper Pak. There arer also Offenhauser intakes, HP cams, etc. made for the 225. The slant 6 was one of the better six-cylinder engines made. The slightly smaller 198 is even better as it revs higher.

Even beater Slant 6 A-bodies bring prices over $5,000 these day, admittedly as V8 swap candidates.

FYI: Ford made many six cylinder Mustangs in the 60s and four cylinder Stangs outnumbered V8 Stangs in the 80s (and I am not talking about SVOs), but no one disparages Ford Pony. If one would read Mustang enthusiast publications one would be excused for believing that every Mustang was a fire breathing beast from the factory. Heck, the Omni GLH outperformed the original GT 350, but I digress.

Moparman wrote: In reply to DrBoost: Growing up in the late 70s and early 80s, V8 A-bodies were everywhere. No one slighted the A-body. There were hot Slant 6 models too. Think Hyper Pak. There arer also Offenhauser intakes, HP cams, etc. made for the 225. The slant 6 was one of the better six-cylinder engines made. The slightly smaller 198 is even better as it revs higher. Even beater Slant 6 A-bodies bring prices over $5,000 these day, admittedly as V8 swap candidates. FYI: Ford made many six cylinder Mustangs in the 60s and four cylinder Stangs outnumbered V8 Stangs in the 80s (and I am not talking about SVOs), but no one disaparages Ford Pony. If one would read Mustang enthusiast publications one would be excused for believing that every Mustang was a fire breathing beast from the factory. Heck, the Omni GLH outperformed the original GT 350, but I digress.

I'm right there with ya brother! Just like current lore would have you believe every 'stang was a fire-breathing V8, that same lore would have you believe there were only three hot mopars in history, 'cuda, challenger, charger. They forget about everything else. That's why someone here said he didn't even know about the original Dart till now. It's off the radar. Of all people on this board, I'm not saying the Dart wasn't a hot car.
I'd love to see this car as a RWD little car to compete with the 1-series but it is what it is. I think this will be a good car for Dodge and i hope it helps keep the turn-around going.

In reply to DrBoost: I am with you 100%.

How about an ACR version like the original Neon ACR now that would be awesome.

Donebrokeit wrote: BTW did anyone see the GM prototype 4 cylinder 150 HP RWD and a stick

Huh, it's like deja-vu!

(solstice)

Moparman wrote: In reply to DrBoost: I am with you 100%.

Of course we know there will be an SRT version. I'm salivating in anticipation. I'm hoping for 250 HP with the shoes and suspenders to match!

This isn't a BMW M series we're talking about. As it has been noted, it is a mass produced, inexpensive grocery getter.

I don't understand how two doors are better than four in any car with a back seat from a practicality standpoint. Yes, some people like the look, but it is a case of form over function; a style for people with no kids.

The 4 door 1st gen Neon was lighter and easier to get a cage in than the two door. Just sayin'.

Brett_Murphy wrote: This isn't a BMW M series we're talking about. As it has been noted, it is a mass produced, inexpensive grocery getter. I don't understand how two doors are better than four in any car with a back seat from a practicality standpoint. Yes, some people like the look, but it is a case of form over function; a style for people with no kids. The 4 door 1st gen Neon was lighter and easier to get a cage in than the two door. Just sayin'.

After several 80s-90s coupes (integra, accord coupe, etc), I won't ever buy a two-door with backseats again. It's just a hassle that is easily solved with back doors.

People I know say "well it's not like anyone rides in the backseat anyhow, so why do I need 2 doors?".....To that I answer "if nobody rides in a backseat, why did you buy a car with a backseat, and not a true 2-seater?"

I think ford wins this battle.

irish44j wrote: People I know say "well it's not like anyone rides in the backseat anyhow, so why do I need 2 doors?".....To that I answer "if nobody rides in a backseat, why did you buy a car with a backseat, and not a true 2-seater?"

Simple: Insurance is cheaper!

Hmmm... Minor tweeks on a '66 Barracuda let me spank an awful lot of E30 M3s at DC area autocrosses in the old MWCSCC series. Let's see, 15x7 wheels, 225 50 15 RA-1s, 1.125" front sway, 0.6875" rear, 0.990 T-bars, Spax Shocks (Aussi part numbers), an alignment, and the battery in the trunk. The Barracuda weighed 3464 with me and gas, but was 50.5/49.5 or so with the cross weights only off by 16#.

The leaning tower of power is no slouch when built right; quoted from recent chater on the Early Valiant and Barracuda Mailing List:

"... Here is a realistic number; 66 Barracuda 3250lbs with driver. 170 CID slant six. 204 rear wheel hp, and 358 ft/lbs torque. 30 minutes after the dyno pull, made a pass down the track. 13.38 sec@98.56 mph..."

But the previous owner of my Dart installed the current 0.040" over 318 short block after grenading two 225 \6s.

Dave

cpdave wrote:

Moparman wrote: ... Darts are quick and can be run with Mustangs and Camaros of the era on road courses.

Abso-&^$%ing-lutely! If it weren't for the WAY better after market support for the Ford & Chevy, an early A-body MOPAR would be a much better starting point for a vintage race car than a first generation Mustang or Camaro.

True Dave. The aftermarket gives a huge advantage to the Camaros and Mustangs. But A-body Mopar guys are more clever, and better looking too.

I'm hoping the new Dart does well. I like what I've seen so far, but I'll wait until I see one in person.

As to calling it a Dart instead of reviving the Neon name, it's been 36 years since the last Dart rolled off the lines in the States. There are still plenty of non-car people who think of the Darts as solid reliable cars. When I had my old '72 or '68 out somewhere normal, like a gas station or grabbing a bite to eat these non-car people would come up and tell stories of the Dart they or a family member had, etc.

The Neon name is still too fresh to bring back from the dead. There are people on this board that bash them now. But the Neon was the first car my sister couldn't drive into the ground. That should have qualified it for sainthood. Maybe in another 20 years I'll go up to the guy with the '98 R/T at the gas station and tell him the story of her car...

Rob_Mopar wrote: True Dave. The aftermarket gives a huge advantage to the Camaros and Mustangs. But A-body Mopar guys are more clever, and better looking too.

You forgot the enourmous hootus'(hooti?*) as well.

cpdave wrote: But the previous owner of my Dart installed the current 0.040" over 318 short block after grenading two 225 6s.

How does one grenade a 225?

I figgered that was damn near unpossible, like pulling the sword from the stone when you are not the rightful king of England.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Kl9MBr15o 370rwhp, 418 tw, 23 psi, and just shy of 10 second 1/4 miles.

*and the blowfish, heh

Wow. Utterly craptastic! Nice ford focus complete with hillbilly lighting kit. Why not call it a "Stratus" or "Cirrus?" Is anyone seriously excited about this?

DrBoost wrote: But you say Charger and people thing Hemi. Say Challenger, people think Hemi.

Back in the day, most people I knew who had Chargers or Challengers had a 318 engine under the hood. There were a few of the hi-po cars around, but they were fairly uncommon.

In reply to Rob_Mopar:

I autocross mine. I have owned it since new in 1999. Solid as a rock.

Say LeBaron, people think Corinthian leather, say Dart, people think slant 6. I am fine with using the name, but i think Neon could have been a good choice too since the demographic they are aming at would know the name. Then again, maybe that's why they chose something besided Neon?

That was the Cordoba, bud.

But you're right about the Slant-6 association with the "Dart" name. Growing up, the first thing I learned about old Mopars was to check which side the exhaust pipe was on. Left meant /6, right meant a V8. Most of the A-bodies had the pipe on the left.