2019 Jeep Gladiator

In reply to secretariata :

It ain't cheap.

Cooter said:

In reply to secretariata :

It ain't cheap.

Thanks, you beat me to it. Any FCA dealer should be able to get it. I've seen them under $5K on sale. 12-16 hours to install. Easy-peasy, right?

Edit: Seems it is No Longer Available from MOPAR. Warrior has a similar kit, but it costs more apparently. Too bad. Probably saving market share for the Gladiator buyers

Edit II: Several aftermarket kits are available. DV8 has a couple options.            conversion kit

Keith Tanner said:

Cooter said:

Keith Tanner said:

"Engine pulls stronger". Man, that 4Runner must have been a weak little thing. Must have been the 3.0. My 90 XJ is no rocket ship, it can get outdragged by eveything and it makes 18 mpg.

It's not like any other crew cab truck. Stick axles, double manual, roof comes off, freaking windshield still folds. It's a weird long Jeep, but it's a lot more jeep than regular truck. 

Congratulations Jeep on inventing the Land Rover Defender 130 

I would ike to congratulate LR for making a removable top Travellette.

I would like to congratulate IH for duplicating the Series 2 double cab pickup 

The Travelette was introduced in 1957.



When did the Series II come out again?  And had the British perfected the Time Machine by 1958? 

Re: short cab long bed

I don't even like Jeeps or own a truck, but if that can tow a racecar with the top down...kind of want

If they had been making these for the last two decades, I would be shopping for one right now.  Someday these will make the ultimate farm truck, but I can't/won't abuse something that costs that much money.  Maybe I can talk my dad into buying one and keeping it for 10 years or so...

maschinenbau said:

Re: short cab long bed

I don't even like Jeeps or own a truck, but if that can tow a racecar with the top down...kind of want

YES! This is it. If it came in this configuration. I would be interested. Sport, 4x4, 3.6L with a manual. Hopefully a rear locker option. I don’t even want a removable top, it’s not appealing to me, give me a tin top. 

Cooter said:

Neither XJs nor MJs were marketed as offroad specific rigs when they came out, any more than S10 Blazer was.

Maybe not, but somehow people figured it out. The XJ is the best selling Jeep model ever. The MJ is not even close, selling about 15% of the XJ over the same time period. The CJ8 was at about the same percentage.  That's the point.  Pickup versions of Jeeps have historically not been strong when compared to the non-pickup version of the same vehicle.

I am suggesting that if I were a vehicle manufacturer, I would definitely look at historical data and what that told me. At the very least, it would tell me how to market the vehicle. My last attempt at a pickup sold better to non-offroaders, and not well at all when compared to the non-pickup version of the same thing. The last offroad-biased truck I sold didn't do any better overall. So, how do I try to make this one work?

Cooter said:

Keith Tanner said:

Cooter said:

Keith Tanner said:

"Engine pulls stronger". Man, that 4Runner must have been a weak little thing. Must have been the 3.0. My 90 XJ is no rocket ship, it can get outdragged by eveything and it makes 18 mpg.

It's not like any other crew cab truck. Stick axles, double manual, roof comes off, freaking windshield still folds. It's a weird long Jeep, but it's a lot more jeep than regular truck. 

Congratulations Jeep on inventing the Land Rover Defender 130 

I would ike to congratulate LR for making a removable top Travellette.

I would like to congratulate IH for duplicating the Series 2 double cab pickup 

The Travelette was introduced in 1957.



When did the Series II come out again?  And had the British perfected the Time Machine by 1958? 

Are you going to make me look for a double cab Series I? 

The thing about the Defender 130 is that it's something that's been available (somewhere) until just recently. It's not a historical artifact the same way that a Series II or a Travelette is. It's a very similar vehicle to the Wrangler Truck. It's also available in a super-short bed regular cab or a long bed regular cab - maybe Jeep will discover those as well.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The Scrambler and Comanche may not have sold massive numbers, but Jeep also offered real trucks for 25-ish years, concurrently with those. Up until 1988 I think. The original Gladiator, J-10's, up to 1-tons and higher. So not really a direct correlation. 

llysgennad said:

Cooter said:

In reply to secretariata :

It ain't cheap.

Thanks, you beat me to it. Any FCA dealer should be able to get it. I've seen them under $5K on sale. 12-16 hours to install. Easy-peasy, right?

 

Edit: Seems it is No Longer Available from MOPAR. Warrior has a similar kit, but it costs more apparently. Too bad. Probably saving market share for the Gladiator buyers

Edit II: Several aftermarket kits are available. DV8 has a couple options.            conversion kit

Thanks for the links guys. You're right they sure ain't cheap... 

Keith Tanner said:

Cooter said:

Neither XJs nor MJs were marketed as offroad specific rigs when they came out, any more than S10 Blazer was.

Maybe not, but somehow people figured it out. The XJ is the best selling Jeep model ever. The MJ is not even close, selling about 15% of the XJ over the same time period. The CJ8 was at about the same percentage.  That's the point.  Pickup versions of Jeeps have historically not been strong when compared to the non-pickup version of the same vehicle.

I am suggesting that if I were a vehicle manufacturer, I would definitely look at historical data and what that told me. At the very least, it would tell me how to market the vehicle. My last attempt at a pickup sold better to non-offroaders, and not well at all when compared to the non-pickup version of the same thing. The last offroad-biased truck I sold didn't do any better overall. So, how do I try to make this one work?

You can't say "last *anything* I offered" has any basis on the present when it was over 30 years ago.  It just doesn't work that way.  Chrysler never made any money on the Hemi.   Look at it now.  No one ever wanted a 4 door performance based sedan from MoPar.   Look at the Charger's sales.  More 4 door Chargers have been sold than two doors now.   The best sales year for the 2 door, 1968, has been eclipsed by over 20,000 units with the 2007 4 door Charger.

Light duty trucks were outsold 2 to 1 in 1985.  Now automobiles are on their deathbed with both GM and Ford.  


XJs weren't seriously looked at as offroad vehicles until they were fully depreciated.  Most of them were hand-me-downs that went off-road because they were far cheaper than a used CJ.   That's why there was never a serious off road package offered for the XJ.  

Jeep has a huge presence at East Jeep Safari, unveiling most of the recent concept vehicles there over the past decade.  EJS was a small gathering that had just been taken over by the Red Rock 4 Wheelers in 1983.   Now they have over 300 volunteers just to run the event  Offroad capability is exactly how Jeeps are sold now, and why the brand is so valuable.  

 

llysgennad said:

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Slammo said:

bigdaddylee82 said:

 

 

I couldn't not fix this.  MSpaintchop

Edit:  One more, just because I can.

I would buy this. I would sell things to make room to buy this. I love this. 

Mopar has been selling the kit to do this for a while, AEV before that. Not quite the towing capability of the Gladiator, though. And I'm sure you know a hemi fits pretty well.

But I think this concept was tailored for you.. The Mighty FC!!

Back to the almighty folding windshield debate

There's a guy in town with a mulch/towing business (because that's an obvious combo...) with one of those Mopar kitted JKs always parked out front. I dig it, but the proportions are a bit odd. That reg cab short bed render of the JT looks SO much better.

I love even the 4 door Jeep truck. Manual(!), convertible, tows race car - if I ever combine DD/truck functions in my fleet, this might be the ticket. Preferably after they depreciate a bit.

Cooter said:

Keith Tanner said:

Cooter said:

Neither XJs nor MJs were marketed as offroad specific rigs when they came out, any more than S10 Blazer was.

Maybe not, but somehow people figured it out. The XJ is the best selling Jeep model ever. The MJ is not even close, selling about 15% of the XJ over the same time period. The CJ8 was at about the same percentage.  That's the point.  Pickup versions of Jeeps have historically not been strong when compared to the non-pickup version of the same vehicle.

I am suggesting that if I were a vehicle manufacturer, I would definitely look at historical data and what that told me. At the very least, it would tell me how to market the vehicle. My last attempt at a pickup sold better to non-offroaders, and not well at all when compared to the non-pickup version of the same thing. The last offroad-biased truck I sold didn't do any better overall. So, how do I try to make this one work?

You can't say "last *anything* I offered" has any basis on the present when it was over 30 years ago.  It just doesn't work that way.  Chrysler never made any money on the Hemi.   Look at it now.  No one ever wanted a 4 door performance based sedan from MoPar.   Look at the Charger's sales.  More 4 door Chargers have been sold than two doors now.   The best sales year for the 2 door, 1968, has been eclipsed by over 20,000 units with the 2007 4 door Charger.

Light duty trucks were outsold 2 to 1 in 1985.  Now automobiles are on their deathbed with both GM and Ford.  


XJs weren't seriously looked at as offroad vehicles until they were fully depreciated.  Most of them were hand-me-downs that went off-road because they were far cheaper than a used CJ.   That's why there was never a serious off road package offered for the XJ.  

Jeep has a huge presence at East Jeep Safari, unveiling most of the recent concept vehicles there over the past decade.  EJS was a small gathering that had just been taken over by the Red Rock 4 Wheelers in 1983.   Now they have over 300 volunteers just to run the event  Offroad capability is exactly how Jeeps are sold now, and why the brand is so valuable.  

 

I can drive to EJS offroad from where I live, so I'm pretty aware of the image cultivated by the brand and the size of the event, even though I haven't been to it for 15 years or so. When you live near Moab, you stay away that weekend :) Most Jeeps around here are used as actual offroaders.

Your statements of the XJ not being an offroader when new don't line up with the 2WD/4WD split. Based on the non-scientific method of simply seeing what's for sale, it appears that the majority of XJs were sold as 4WD while 2/3 of the MJ were not. That does speak to a different market. I don't know what the actual production numbers are, because of course around here nobody values the 2WD SUVs.

Saying that "automobiles are on their deathbed" as a justification for light duty trucks is ignoring the fact that the automobile has simply grown taller and been given the moniker "SUV". They're not being replaced by pickups. Looking at the WSJ report for March 2018 (simply because it popped up first), actual pickup trucks were about 261k. Cars/SUVs/crossovers were just over 1.39 million.  That's 5:1.

I do think the Gladiator will sell well enough to justify the tooling, don't get me wrong. I do give Jeep more credit for knowing their market than some do - the regular cab short bed is not going to be a big seller if they make it, based on Taco sales. But I'm not convinced it'll change the marketplace much or cause many people to give up their Tacos. The guys who cross-shop this are the ones who immediately go to the toy store and make baby brodozers out of the Toyota, so the Jeep is going to be up against Toyota's legendary reliability and used Raptors. Time will tell how that actually sells. The four door Wrangler sells well because it's actually got some space inside, but do people really want a bed on the back? We'll see.

Moving away from the debate on whether or not they know their market. 

I wonder how the airflow and wind noise is with the top off?  The bed is going to make it different from the JK/JL since there is a bed and tailgate.

Tonneau covers and other accessories are also going to have the potential to negatively affect the enjoyment of the removable top.  

At least in my experience, opening a sliding rear window in a pickup ended up with any sand, mulch, recycling, etc blowing into the cab and making a mess. 

No Time said

At least in my experience, opening a sliding rear window in a pickup ended up with any sand, mulch, recycling, etc blowing into the cab and making a mess. 

That’s when you fold down the windshield! Duh. 

Keith, this is sort of off topic, but there was some Toyota chat earlier. What kind of mpg did you get in your T100? Was it 4wd? 

MotorsportsGordon said:

Yep, that's just about perfect. Updated, on a Ram frame. 

Keith Tanner said:

No Time said

At least in my experience, opening a sliding rear window in a pickup ended up with any sand, mulch, recycling, etc blowing into the cab and making a mess. 

That’s when you fold down the windshield! Duh. 

Grass clippings for everyone!

Sorry, but the removable top is not appealing to me. I wanted them to make a real truck, not a Wrangler with a Bed and yes it’s exactly that. Jeep is trying to tout that it’s more than that, but it’s exactly that, regardless of the extended wheel base. 

I have to admit this thing is growing on me the more I look at it. I'm interested to see how it tows in the real world. It has a higher tow rating than the gas Ranger but has slightly more horsepower and a decent bit less torque. 

SyntheticBlinkerFluid said:

Sorry, but the removable top is not appealing to me. I wanted them to make a real truck, not a Wrangler with a Bed and yes it’s exactly that. Jeep is trying to tout that it’s more than that, but it’s exactly that, regardless of the extended wheel base. 

I have no interest in a removable top either, BUT.....the market is flooded with well-developed and highly-capable pickups now. If Jeep just came out with a normal pickup and slapped a Jeep badge and fenders on it, I don't see it as competing. The Gladiator isn't going to be nearly as good at "pickup" things (towing, for example) as an F150 or Tundra/Tacoma, so it has to stick to what people like about Jeeps.....the look, the roof and doors off, etc. 

ultraclyde said:

I have to admit this thing is growing on me the more I look at it. I'm interested to see how it tows in the real world. It has a higher tow rating than the gas Ranger but has slightly more horsepower and a decent bit less torque. 

the question is how well it will tow when bro'd up with big tires

llysgennad said:

MotorsportsGordon said:

Yep, that's just about perfect. Updated, on a Ram frame. 

 

You like changing balljoints and tie rod ends?

bigeyedfish said:

Keith, this is sort of off topic, but there was some Toyota chat earlier. What kind of mpg did you get in your T100? Was it 4wd? 

I had a 3.0 “truck”, back before Toyota named their pickups. I don’t recall the specific economy, it was 16-18 ish. I also had a V8 first-gen Tundra that was about 18 in day to day driving. Both 4wd. We had a T100 as a shop truck at FM for a while, but it had a diy turbo bolted to the side so I don’t think it will be representative!