2019 ND Miata or used Cayman?

I am currently contemplating purchasing my last ever ICE car . . . and my wife and I are kicking the tires on whether or not we should purchase an ND, or a used Cayman.  HPDE events, and autocross would be the main use, and occasional travel for two, but nothing too extreme in that department.  It would not be a daily driver.

It would mean selling my beloved NA, and my E46 M3, but as we approach the "empty nest" and we transition to less stuff, and a condo life it seems like a good change.

The benefits of the ND are of course, its newness, and the fact that Flyin' Miata is such an exceptional company.  It looks like a Hard Dog roll bar,  a FOX suspension, and some 17 x 9s would make the most sense.  The ND would surely be less expensive on consumables than the Porsche.  I did have a 30 minute session in a Miata Cup car, so I have a sense of what the track experience would be like.  I haven't seen any tests of the more powerful ND, but my  dealer says they are currently in transit.

The Cayman is a Cayman -- is it Porsche time at this stage in my life?  Budget wise in Canada, we'd be looking at an older "S" or a newer non S.  The tracks we drive most frequently do reward power -- Calabogie, Tremblant, and Mosport . . .

Any one care to share thoughts?

You know, I've had the exact same thought when driving past the local "fun car" used car lot. New RF or used Cayman. Fun fact: the owner of Flyin' Miata has a used Cayman. I think he's ashamed of it, he won't bring it in. But right now, he's checking out our fleet of NDs to see which one he can get for the weekend. I don't know what to read into that.

The new 2019 ND hasn't been driven by anyone outside Mazda (as far as I know) but it will feel much like the previous engine below 5000 (grunty) but will wake up above that. Should be a complete riot without losing what makes the car useful day to day. I'm pretty excited about that.

In reply to ZOO :

I do not know a definitive answer, but I do not think you can make a wrong decision.  At least I hope not, as my buddy and I are splitting the same decision.  We both have autox and HPDE set up NBs we love.  He got a wild hair and went out and bought a new ND that he loves (not new engine version).  I have a hardtop equiped Boxster fall into my hands.  We both are loving these cars!

When thinking about the two, there are the obvious things.  The Boxster will cost more to maintain, and will eat more consummables.  The Miata will be slower unless you make some significant changes, but the Miata is so customizable..

But driving both, you get more subtle differences..  These things you need to drive the cars to make a decision.  For example, the Boxster is to me a better long distance GT car.  Its quieter, less wearing on you.  The Miata, while beautiful, does not exhibit quality like the Porsche, everything from how the doors close to the all the user interfaces.  You need to personally assess the differences to your personal tastes.

I love them both!

.  . .  .     

What rules out a Boxster? The Cayman may be 'better,' especially on the track, but better enough to justify the price delta on the used market? This is the question I'm juggling.

My son has a Cayman S. I've driven Miatas and my brother owned one. They are great cars but In my mind there is no way I'd pick a Miata over a Cayman. Obviously  ownership cost would be less with the Miata but nothing else even comes close. 

Jim, have you driven an ND? 

To me this largely comes down to how financially distressing a catastrophic engine failure would be. Being willing and able to afford buying a car is not the same as being willing and able to afford owning and operating it as intended. Beyond the difference in consumables and maintenance, there is the increased probability of unwarranted and uninsured repairs that significant track use brings. I think I'd have to be financially secure enough to be willing and able to justify a new Porsche as predominantly a street car, before I would be willing and able to buy a used one largely as a track toy...Of which I am neither. 

If you are though, I think the fastest Porsche you're willing and able to afford thrashing might be the way to go, especially for faster tracks and longer drives. As much as I like surprising 'faster' cars on a tighter track or autox, and cars that feel like you're going faster than you are, there is something to be said on a racetrack for the car you're passing not having to come all the way off the gas to let you accomplish this feat.

I have not driven an ND and ZOO did say he was considering an ND so I may have spoken out of turn. I do think the Cayman is much better looking, sounds awesome, probably has more interior room and storage. Just my opinion. I'm sure the driving experience is equally enjoyable. I have driven an NC and and my brother's modded NB. 

The ND is still a Miata, but it's worlds better than the old cars. Expectations for what a new car should be have evolved and the ND has, incredibly, met those expectations while continuing to be ultra light and supremely fun. The aftermarket continues to do a great job providing ways to personalize the experience.

Even if you don't win the track day grand prix, I think a Miata is a compelling package for the op's intended use of hpde and autocross. Tires are a major expense in either situation and they will likely be cheaper and last longer on the Miata.

But as much as I want an ND, I want a Boxster or Cayman more. I *love* the way they sound. A Porsche with a flat six has never been more attainable and ND values are still dropping considerably.

Keith Tanner said:

Fun fact: the owner of Flyin' Miata has a used Cayman.

I just want to say thanks for the candor, Keith. You've been a great part of the community and honesty like this is no small part of that.

Keith Tanner said:

Jim, have you driven an ND? 

I'll be the first to admit; I never been impressed with NA-C Miata's because the 987 Cayman S ruined them for me. But, the ND is so good in my opinion that I would have a long talk with myself if I decided to buy a 2 seater for 25-30k. It would be used Cayman 987.1 (maybe 987.2) vs a basically new ND RF. And I love the RF so much lol 

In reply to yupididit :

I love the RF as well. Really love the looks of the ND overall. Cayman looks wise is solid. I would need to test drive both cars extensively.

clutchsmoke said:

In reply to yupididit :

I love the RF as well. Really love the looks of the ND overall. Cayman looks wise is solid. I would need to test drive both cars extensively.

I would like to be part of this test drive as well. I haven’t driven a Porsche since a first generation Boxster back in 2000. Well, and an LS3 powered 944 but that doesn’t count. I want to love the sound of a flat six but I rarely do.

I’ve said it before - “Miata” is too generic a term. An NA is a classic car.  An NB has its roots in a chassis design that’s 30 years old.  An NC is a 15 year old chassis that’s shared with a four(ish) door and feels very different than the previous car. The ND is a very modern car - that’s good and bad - that is one of the lightest on the market and that has the ability to be much faster than the numbers would lead you to expect. It’s like the BMW 3 Series, an E30 is a different beast than what’s in the showroom today. I would use 911 as an example, but it’s not a good one ;)

Totally subjective opinion...  If the top down experience isn't important to you I'd go Cayman

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I also struggle to enjoy the flat 6 sound. Exhaust music to me is V configuration or certain inline engines.

I've never driven a Porsche,  but hold multiple different Mazdas as my benchmark for fun to drive and good chassis dynamics.

I'm up for that test drive any time 

My benchmark was my s2k. Now whenever I drive my 991 Carrera or my son's 981 Cayman S I forget all about the s2k. Also as far as the sound of v engines my lt1 z28 was only ok compared to my brother's Mustang. 

We did some road trips in our Boxster and were stunned how much stuff you can cram into the two trunks, and how pleasant it is on the highway. We also averaged 36 mpg and we were hustling pretty good. We also did hundreds of laps on the road course and hundreds of runs in autocross and the car was flawless.  My wife almost won SCCA Solo Nationals in the car but lost by .001 seconds (closest finish in SCCA history). The brake discs and pads and the clutch all showed little signs of wear after years of use. The only weakness we found was when we switched to R comps for autocrossing, we broke 1st gear from all the high rpm launches. It cost us only $800 to buy a used trans and put it in. Also, the Porsche Club of America has great events and the best newsletter you can imagine, and many Porsche dealerships give discounts to PCA members. There is no substitute

Thanks for all the responses so far.  I don't know that we are any closer to a decision, yet, but everyone has essentially confirmed the two points in discussion:  the ND will be less financially needy all around., and the Porsche will be faster, with a higher build quality.

I am trying not to be afraid of IMS issues, or oil starvation issues pre-2009 (I read the Cayman tech tips).  A really lovely Cayman non-S has popped up, in the fastest colour (white), with a 6 speed, and low mileage.  But it's not an S . . . 

I think a Boxster requires too much modification to be HPDE friendly,  but I haven't really investigated that.

I do feel inclined to vote with my pocketbook, and thank Mazda for continuing to build something interesting, engaging, and in my price range :).

Cayman all the way unless you want something under warranty....

If you want to make an ND faster, I know a guy.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Trust me, I've already "bought" my first year mods . . . thanks to your great website.  Though it looks like 17x9s are tough to find.

Tough to find? There are 20 sets sitting right outside my office door Unless you mean options that are not a Miata-specific wheel from a specialist wheel company. That's harder. There's the Advanti Storm which is a bit heavier than the 6UL and there's the TRM wheel that's heavier yet. There aren't a lot of cars that use that size with that bolt pattern.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I could have sworn your website said they were out of stock when I checked on Friday or Saturday . . . I didn't cross shop anywhere, though, because you guys rock.

It should not have said that, they definitely are not out of stock!

I appreciate the confidence.

From a strictly psychological standpoint, although the local Porsche club has a lock on the best autocross site around, and by all reports they are a great group, in my heavily monied area I'm not sure how I'd feel being one of the smallest dogs in the hunt. Will a $25K Cayman present itself respectably in the company of 500 HP GT3s? Or would I feel like a dweeb in the company of the cool kids?