I didn't see a thread about this yet but thought I would see what people though about it because well, our kind buy a lot of tires. I am not even sure what brands are made in China, I just usually buy whats fast and in my size.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/14/obama-administration-slaps-hefty-import-tariffs-on-chinese-made/
This looks to me awfully like the tariffs on Japanese-made goods back in the 1980s. I guess we've all seen how well those worked 
.
Several of the economics-related blogs weren't too happy with this either, not for the usual free marketeer reasons but because they see it as a further escalation of a smouldering trade war that's been going on in the background between the US and China. At the moment the two economies are interdependent in an unhealthy way so some sort of "divorce" might well be necessary but it's a question on how acrimonious it has to become.
OTOH it is really hard to compete with an economy that doesn't give two hoots about environmental issues if you're trying to avoid sinking (back) to their level.
I guess we'll find out soon just how many tires even of so-called domestic brands are made in China.
It will effect the price of tires across the board in the US. Obama did this for the steel workers union.
The problem with this type of thing is that it is almost always met with a retaliation of some sort. Could be that suddenly an American product (s) sold in China will have a 35% tariff. These things typically do not work well.
So who will blink first, China or Obama? My money is on the latter...
SupraWes wrote: I didn't see a thread about this yet but thought I would see what people though about it because well, our kind buy a lot of tires. I am not even sure what brands are made in China, I just usually buy whats fast and in my size. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/14/obama-administration-slaps-hefty-import-tariffs-on-chinese-made/
Hankook is the only Chinese name I can come up with at the moment (have a set on my Suburban). Others probably have tires made there.
There is a united ruberworkers union (or some such) - why would this favor the steel union (other then the belts?) rather then them?
Most "US" tire manufacturers are foriegn owned now I believe...
Terrible idea. The man won't rest until there are no non-government jobs left in this country. Either he is a lot more clueless than he lets on or his real goal is destroy our country, Either one is not comforting.
I thought Hankook were Korean.
TJ wrote: Terrible idea. The man won't rest until there are no non-government jobs left in this country. Either he is a lot more clueless than he lets on or his real goal is destroy our country, Either one is not comforting.
Their goal is power for themselves. If the only way to gain power is to sell out the American people then so be it because when the dust settles they'll have garnered more power and that's all that matters.
Tire Wars? U.S. Boosts Tariff on China-Made Tires, China Fires Back Date posted: 09-14-2009 STORY TOOLS Digg this storyDigg this! del.icio.usdel.icio.us WASHINGTON — It could be a momentary glitch or the start of a massive trade war, but the U.S. imposition of a new 35 percent tariff on China-made tires has definitely started something. The Chinese government is calling the tariff, signed into law by President Obama on Friday and added to an already existing 4 percent tariff, "a grave act of trade protectionism." The new tariff reportedly was imposed in part because of U.S. union complaints that the Chinese tires were cutting deeply into American companies' bottom lines. There are claims that 7,000 U.S. factory workers have lost their jobs because of the imports, and the United Steelworkers union reported that U.S. tire production is down 17.8 percent in the past four years. China's Ministry of Commerce, apparently in direct response to the tire tariff, issued a statement on Sunday saying that its own country's manufacturers are objecting to competition from U.S. imported vehicles and poultry products and it will look into those complaints. The Chinese government filed an official complaint with the World Trade Organization on Monday over the tariff. The China Daily newspaper called the tire tariff "a huge blow" and said the move could cost 100,000 jobs in China. The paper quoted Fan Rende, chairman of the China Rubber Industry Association, as saying the tariff may mean that Chinese makers will have to stop exporting their tires to the U.S. market. It also quoted an "industry official" as saying that the "Chinese government should take strong countermeasures against exports from the U.S." The Wall Street Journal noted on Monday that buyers at the "low end" of the tire-buying market in the U.S. will feel the brunt of the tariff most strongly. The paper said nearly 17 percent of all tires sold in the U.S. last year — 46 million tires in all — came from China. It also said that, in addition to Chinese brands unknown in the U.S. until recently, both U.S. tiremakers, Goodyear and Cooper, make tires in China as well as here to sell in the U.S. market. President Obama is slated to make an official visit to China in November. Before that, he will host a G20 summit of world leaders in Pittsburgh, which takes place September 24-25, where the issue is sure to be brought up. Inside Line says: Another economic mess to untangle — and one that needs some cooler heads than are in evidence at the moment — as the global economy struggles to right itself. — Laura Sky Brown, Correspondent
You know who is going to lose the most? GM is expecting China to be it's saviour...
TJ wrote: Terrible idea. The man won't rest until there are no non-government jobs left in this country. Either he is a lot more clueless than he lets on or his real goal is destroy our country, Either one is not comforting.
exactly how?
Since we import FAR more from China than we export, I don't see how it's really going to hurt the US companies.
On top of that, China artifically supresses the value of their currency to give them a cost advnatage while they are growing a tremendous rates. So basically, thier stuff is cheap to us, and our stuff is expensive to them- how is that good for the US?
As for making more "government jobs" as you claim- how is a tarriff going to do that?
Or, are you assuming that having cheap stuff available to you where your hard earn $$ ends up in China a good way of making our country stronger?
I just don't get the assertion.
Cheap stuff isn't a right. And AFAIKT, not really good if the cheap stuff exports our money.
Eric
industry official said: Chinese government should take strong countermeasures against exports from the U.S.
The jokes on them, we outsourced our exports years ago.
alfadriver wrote:TJ wrote: Terrible idea. The man won't rest until there are no non-government jobs left in this country. Either he is a lot more clueless than he lets on or his real goal is destroy our country, Either one is not comforting.exactly how? Since we import FAR more from China than we export, I don't see how it's really going to hurt the US companies. On top of that, China artifically supresses the value of their currency to give them a cost advnatage while they are growing a tremendous rates. So basically, thier stuff is cheap to us, and our stuff is expensive to them- how is that good for the US? As for making more "government jobs" as you claim- how is a tarriff going to do that? Or, are you assuming that having cheap stuff available to you where your hard earn $$ ends up in China a good way of making our country stronger? I just don't get the assertion. Cheap stuff isn't a right. And AFAIKT, not really good if the cheap stuff exports our money. Eric
The danger here is protectionism. It is a lose-lose situation. We slap tariffs on their goods, then they slap tariffs on ours. We lose what few exports we do have with China and both countries end up losing jobs. We have to start manufacturing stuff here at a much higher cost than we can get it from China. That becomes a drag on the economy, as well. Get some basic economics texts on trade and read about comparative advantage, then you'll understand. Obama is screwing the whole country to pay back the unions for getting him elected.
Get some economic history texts and read about the Great Depression and how protectionism made it longer and deeper. Obama and team are mortgaging our future to pump gov't $$ to bolster an economy and fund social programs. You combine that with protectionism and it will be a long, long time before this economy truly recovers.
The bottom line is if the US cannot make tires to compete with chinese ones no tariff or duty is going to save our countries tire business. I'm not even sure we still make tires in the US because the tires I have on the buell and my car are from brazil.
There are all of 2 makers of tires for the punky buellster, dunlop and pirelli. There was a cheng sing tire from china that would fit but good luck finding them. If you want to see chinese tires look in the JC Whitney MC catelog.
From what I hear this is just going to hurt people who cannot afford pirelli, goodyear, yokohama, etc. and need cheap tires for transportation. Hopefully this issue is resolved and the tariff is reduced.
John Brown wrote: .. the United Steelworkers union reported that U.S. tire production is down 17.8 percent in the past four years..
Why are steelworkers making tires? Steel belted radials? Weird.
aircooled wrote:John Brown wrote: .. the United Steelworkers union reported that U.S. tire production is down 17.8 percent in the past four years..Why are steelworkers making tires? Steel belted radials? Weird.
United Rubber Workers merged with the United Steelworkers Union in 1995.
dmeadow wrote:alfadriver wrote:The danger here is protectionism. It is a lose-lose situation. We slap tariffs on their goods, then they slap tariffs on ours. We lose what few exports we do have with China and both countries end up losing jobs. We have to start manufacturing stuff here at a much higher cost than we can get it from China. That becomes a drag on the economy, as well. Get some basic economics texts on trade and read about comparative advantage, then you'll understand. Obama is screwing the whole country to pay back the unions for getting him elected. Get some economic history texts and read about the Great Depression and how protectionism made it longer and deeper. Obama and team are mortgaging our future to pump gov't $$ to bolster an economy and fund social programs. You combine that with protectionism and it will be a long, long time before this economy truly recovers.TJ wrote: Terrible idea. The man won't rest until there are no non-government jobs left in this country. Either he is a lot more clueless than he lets on or his real goal is destroy our country, Either one is not comforting.exactly how? Since we import FAR more from China than we export, I don't see how it's really going to hurt the US companies. On top of that, China artifically supresses the value of their currency to give them a cost advnatage while they are growing a tremendous rates. So basically, thier stuff is cheap to us, and our stuff is expensive to them- how is that good for the US? As for making more "government jobs" as you claim- how is a tarriff going to do that? Or, are you assuming that having cheap stuff available to you where your hard earn $$ ends up in China a good way of making our country stronger? I just don't get the assertion. Cheap stuff isn't a right. And AFAIKT, not really good if the cheap stuff exports our money. Eric
So what you are saying is that making things here is a bad idea???
It would be protectionism if we were blocking from Korea and Japan as well, but when we are dealing with a country that already has the US in an unfair position, all you are trying to do is save you "cheap stuff".
And the further implication that the extra point is to raise money to bulster his programs isn't exactly accurate, either. It's not like this is going to have much of an impact on the government funding. As far as I can tell, it's to do 2 things- to help the Union's support of the administration, and to bring to a point that some of China's trade policies are quite unfair, especially the artificially fixing of their currency to ours.
If companies make just as good of stuff here in the US at a price that's competetive, that's good for our economy- more plants, more people making income, more tax, ripple effect on secondary buisnesses.
If this program turns MORE into protectionism, then I'll be more worried. But I see it more directed to satisfy union support (which happens ALL the time like this) and to make a trade point. While Obama probably will blink first, the reaction from the Chinese tells me that this isn't chicken, and they get the point. Not happily, of course, but they get it.
Let's not start pretending that we export any reasonable amount of stuff to China- those days are long gone. We send them our money, and they pirate it themselves. Probably not as good, but for their sake, I don't think they care.
How one tarriff increas on one product coming from one country turns into protectionism is pretty funny. Unless you just really, really like sending your money to China for more cheap stuff.
Eric
OTOH it is really hard to compete with an economy that doesn't give two hoots about environmental issues
Not to mention lax/virtually non-existent labor laws. I could build all kinds of cheap E36 M3 if I had an endless supply of healthy people with small fingers working for pennies an hour in my basement. Buy American when you can, crackers.
poopshovel wrote: Not to mention ... I could build ... an endless supply of ... crackers.
I knew you could.
And yet both of the daily driver cars in my house ride on Korean tires. I figured all the major tire makers had outsourced their production years ago. Last I heard the tire production factories had consolidated and the difference between tire brands had become almost moot. Only the name on the sidewall differentiated one tire from another. Goodyear tires may be made at the same plant as Aurora tires.
Bummer, I run Shinko's on my bike, and need a new rear. The bottom line for me was that the Shinko was $100, a comparable 'name-brand' would have been $200+.
slefain wrote: I figured all the major tire makers had outsourced their production years ago.
Michelin still has several plants in SC.
poopshovel wrote: OTOH it is really hard to compete with an economy that doesn't give two hoots about environmental issues
I don't buy this argument any more. Do some research on all the greentech they are buying then stfu...
http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2009/08/10/china%E2%80%99s-green-leap-forward/
So what you are saying is that making things here is a bad idea???
Yes. SOME things. As I said, get some books on the economics of trade. Or at least Google the Principle of Comparative Advantage.
It would be protectionism if we were blocking from Korea and Japan as well, but when we are dealing with a country that already has the US in an unfair position, all you are trying to do is save you "cheap stuff".
I don't think you understand the definition of protectionism. It is an act that is not defined by the number of partners you act against. And in this case you are dismissing protectionist actions against one of our largest trading partners as meaningless, which doesn't make sense.
We are in an unbalanced position, certainly, but is it an "unfair" one? How do you define that? Even none of what the Obama Administration has said alleges that the Chinese are dumping product, which would be an unfair trade practice as such things are defined. They just say that these imports are taking US jobs. That's a huge difference. Again, do some research on basic trade issues and understand what dumping is and the role of the WTO.
And the further implication that the extra point is to raise money to bulster his programs isn't exactly accurate, either. It's not like this is going to have much of an impact on the government funding. As far as I can tell, it's to do 2 things- to help the Union's support of the administration, and to bring to a point that some of China's trade policies are quite unfair, especially the artificially fixing of their currency to ours.
I wasn't trying to make that point.
If companies make just as good of stuff here in the US at a price that's competetive, that's good for our economy- more plants, more people making income, more tax, ripple effect on secondary buisnesses.
Sigh. Not necessarily. See above suggestion on understanding Comparative Advantage. Protecting industries tends to retard economic growth, not benefit it.
Let's not start pretending that we export any reasonable amount of stuff to China- those days are long gone. We send them our money, and they pirate it themselves. Probably not as good, but for their sake, I don't think they care.
In 2008 we exported about $72 billion worth of goods to China. In 1999 we exported about $13 billion worth of goods. What days are long gone, exactly? Now, by the same token, the trade imbalance has worsened greatly as we imported about $82 billion in 1999 and $338 billion in 2008. Regardless, I think those folks that are behind that $72 billion of exports might think it is pretty dang important, though you dismiss it as inconsequential.
How one tarriff increas on one product coming from one country turns into protectionism is pretty funny. Unless you just really, really like sending your money to China for more cheap stuff.
That one tariff increase on that one product was done for protectionist reasons and is therefore protectionism. I don't see the humor in that, but maybe I'm not as easily amused as you are.
Again, read your history. China's reaction is the logical next step in a trade war. You have to understand something about international trade, here, but in this day and age for one country to arbitrarily slap a tariff to blatantly protect an industry, without either a case for dumping or subsidized export, is firing the first shot in a trade war. Wars always begin with one shot.
Perhaps this will get defused before it escalates, and it is all just as amusing and inconsequential as you suggest. Let's hope so.
ignorant wrote:poopshovel wrote: OTOH it is really hard to compete with an economy that doesn't give two hoots about environmental issuesI don't buy this argument any more. Do some research on all the greentech they are buying then stfu... http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2009/08/10/china%E2%80%99s-green-leap-forward/
Um, I didn't say that. So yeah, why don't YOU stfu man! Yeah! C'mon! Let's fight! 
You'll need to log in to post.
