400tw class, thoughts?

I’m not sure if this has been discussed here or not, but it probably has some time in the past maybe before I came along. I don’t remember ever seeing anyone discussed this recently, so I thought I would ask. Since, I feel like it would really draw out a lot of the competitors to try to make the most of their machines on tires that are basically flaccid may pops

I've been running 400tw on my miata since I got it.(Dunlop DZ102s) I think they're perfectly fine as far as my skill level goes, and they're friendly enough on the street until it gets below 50f outside.

I did finally run 200tw on the miata, and my over confidence in the tires actually cost me a little time.

Or are you talking about making a class exclusively of them for competition?

Over in Bowling Green this winter there is a race series called "King of the Heap" in which the spec tire is a Uniroyal Tiger Paw (660 TW).  Cars will compete in autocross, drag race, rallycross, and track portion.  All cars shall be valued at $1,000 or less with a $1,500 claiming rule to keep folks honest.  It looks like fun!

In reply to KyAllroad :

Oh my! My kingdom to have this in my area!

Great idea, except that TW ratings are pretty well made up and manufacturers could put any number on the side of the tires if they wanted to.

Jus' Sayin'

Yeah I think youd have to go the spec crappy tire route. Find one that comes in a lot of sizes and pick it

Stefan said:

Great idea, except that TW ratings are pretty well made up and manufacturers could put any number on the side of the tires if they wanted to.

Jus' Sayin'

I totally agree with you.

As much as i like the idea and think that it would be fun to have a 400tw class.

I think that you would just eventually end up with 400tw rated tires that last 8000 miles on the road and beat the pants off all the real 400tw tires and take the fun out of the class.

In reply to Stefan :

You mean like 140TW tires all suddenly becoming 200TW tires if the predominant 'street tire' competition sanctioning body suddenly changed their definition of 'street tires' from 140TW to 200TW?...Nah, that would never happen.

Then again, there would be no real benefit to the manufacturers to lie about TW for the sake of a small handfull of 'competition' buyers, at the expense of multiple orders of magnitude more 'ordinary' buyers, in this class of tires.  So it would probably be pretty easy to police.  The biggest drawback would be that for the sake of the tires, and not to mention extracting the most out of them, all serious competitors would necessarily have to shave the tires down to a more 'competition appropriate' tread depth...There by negating a significant portion of the intended advantages of such a class.

It would be fun until folks figure that one brand of tire that is better than the rest and it will invariably have limited size options.

There used to be a "spec tire" autocross class... and everyone bitched about it. 

Trackmouse said:

In reply to KyAllroad :

Oh my! My kingdom to have this in my area!

It gets better.  It's a team event with 4 members per team.  Entry is $150 per team and everyone drives all 4 parts but the score has to include all drivers.  So even if you have a ringer on your team you can only use one of his/her best times.

That is awesome! And I’m all for a spec E36 M3e tire class! Call it “sh*t spec”. Of course, no company is going to loan their name to that...

I hate the way tires have gone over the last 30 years since the inception of R compounds.  When I started A008's the BFG R1's were hot E36 M3.  You could drive those daily and still get a year plus of local competition out of them.  Hoosier really Berkleyd it up with their DOT tires.  I don't blame them, they just drove a semi through the intention of the rules. 

Before I moved here, when I was doing hillclimbs in the UK, all the road going classes had tire exclusion lists.  That meant if a manufacturer came out with a cheater tire like the HoHo's they could get put on the exclusion list even if they were to throw on a BS 200, 400, 600 tread wear.  That kept it too 'real' high performance street tires.  I think that would be the best way forward, but it'll never happen as people with a vested interest would cry no fair.

Some friends and I once thought that a series using those low profile spare tires that say not to exceed 50mph would be fun. 

Yes beer was involved. 

I would be extremely interested in a tigerpaw class at challenge,  for lulz

The problem with a real 400TW tire is that when you abuse them and they get hot they'll start to chunk rubber. Maybe shaving them might prevent that. 

sergio said:

The problem with a real 400TW tire is that when you abuse them and they get hot they'll start to chunk rubber. Maybe shaving them might prevent that. 

That just means you have to pit earlier and buy more cheapo tires. 

The BFG Comp 2 A/S seem to tolerate a respectable amount of heat for a 400TW performance all-season.

In reply to KyAllroad :

I live in the Bowling Green area and have a heap that's worth well under $1,000 so you've got my attention.

In reply to Chadeux :

if it's bowling Green Ky I'm definitely interested

WildScotsRacing said:

The BFG Comp 2 A/S seem to tolerate a respectable amount of heat for a 400TW performance all-season.

Agreed. I've run them in the past and been pleasantly surprised. Kumho used to have an all season that was remarkably competent as well - the AST, I think.

I did bring this up the other day,  got dressed down for saying so.  I'll see if I can remember the Thread

Saturday  I said, 'This show is co Sponsored By General Tire, why don't they Bring down a trailer full of tires for us to run as our Free Set". the answer was they don't make race Tires.  (the wording wasn't that nice)

 so there is your answer , put us all on equal tires w/ DOT ratings. I have A6's so I'm not really concerned but it may look good in Print. there was a good looking set next to that red Mazda hard top but I didn't look to see what they were. 

In reply to eebasist :

Looks like it's at NCM if I found the right thing.

In reply to Chadeux :

Yep. That’s the one. I think it’s going to be a big hit. 

I think I may have to make an effort to be there.