99 Boxster S vs 99 Carerra S

I would rather own a 911, probably always will. It is my personal halo car.

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: Is it already that time again? To argue whether or not GRM is ONLY about $2000 cars, beaters and miatas? That discussion is getting pretty tired.

plance1 wrote: "45k?" "Bargain?" Who let this guy in here?

Relax sensitive sally... if there was an argument I guess it must have been one that I missed. But to answer your question, no, $45k does not constitute "grassroots" when the main yearly event this magazine holds is for vehicles that cost $2015. But then again all magazines seem to creep upscale for guys like you which means there apparently is room for everyone!

Ah, it is that time of year again. Popcorn, anybody?

We've had that discussion a whole bunch of times. The outcome was always that the "Grassroots" part wasn't "Cheapskate Motorsports", it was grassroots because the magazine is targeted at motorsports enthusiasts who pay their own way, often but not always work on their own car and don't own multi-million dollar race teams. Or even get six figure sponsorship deals.

The average new car purchase price in the US is around $32k at the moment. $45k for the sort of performance you get from a stock 996 turbo is a bargain by most people's standards in relation to that. Can people on this board build something faster for a lot less money? Yeah, most likely. Is it going to hold together like a 996 turbo that you can drive to pick up croissants in the morning and take to Laguna Seca in the afternoon?

BoxheadTim wrote: Ah, it *is* that time of year again. Popcorn, anybody? We've had that discussion a whole bunch of times. The outcome was always that the "Grassroots" part wasn't "Cheapskate Motorsports", it was grassroots because the magazine is targeted at motorsports enthusiasts who pay their own way, often but not always work on their own car and don't own multi-million dollar race teams. Or even get six figure sponsorship deals. The *average* new car purchase price in the US is around $32k at the moment. $45k for the sort of performance you get from a stock 996 turbo is a bargain by most people's standards in relation to that. Can people on this board build something faster for a lot less money? Yeah, most likely. Is it going to hold together like a 996 turbo that you can drive to pick up croissants in the morning and take to Laguna Seca in the afternoon?

Probably not.

We are all about performance bargains here. I see people swoon over a the new Vetter every day. Will it keep up with a 580 hp 996 when all you get to plop down is $45K total? Not likely. Will it have the value the Porsche does as the years and mileage creep up? Not if you look at the market now. Is it more expensive initially? Absolutely!

It's a car, with the right driver can topple just about anything in it's class, and what is more scary, with a mediocre driver can topple 80% of it's class.

The Vette is fast, but you better be there 100% of the time. The new breed of AWD Turbo Porsches, to quote Car and Driver, is an appliance for speed. They have the car dialed in so well that just about any idiot can go fast in them. Truely scary.

So yes it isn't "cheap", but a bargain? Hell Yeah! Don't forget the 996 isn't loved as much by Porsche-philes because it is the first Wasser-Boxer. So it is a reject from it's own kind. Grassroots? Absolutely.

That is the whole point of this VS when I thought it up. The cheap 914-6 remake or the king from the same year that has been shunned by the elites. Which is the most desired car between you guys.

After all, a group of people that think a Wartburg race car and a turbo Neon DD, are great ideas can't not love the redheaded step-kinder of Stuttgart.

Brining this back on track (BTW I'm totally in agreement with Boxhead's assessment about).

I've noticed something over the last couple of months. I've always loved the Boxster and watched for them ever since they came out, but I've noticed something. I think they really have hit a price point recently and I'm guessing that most of the ones that are going to have IMS bearing issues have had them by now, but suddenly I'm seeing a whole lot more of them than I used to do. I think they have long passed the first owner category, been through the weekend driver stage and have suddenly hit affordable. We are diving head long into winter here in Michigan and I saw two on my way to work this morning, one had snow tires on. That's not something you normally see at this time of year.

So I had a ’01 Boxster S and a ’99 Carrera 2. The Boxster was nicer overall condition. I daily drove and autocrossed both cars. I’m not a super serious autocrosser, but am a former NASA National Champ and have lots of seat time in lots of cars. Both of these are better grand tourers than serious handling or autox machines. Neither are classed competitively in SCCA.

Both of my Porsches were good daily drivers. When it came to autox, the 996 was so much more involving than the 986S. I will probably be mocked for typing this, but the Boxster S (986S), just seemed lacking to me. Both suffered from understeer due to their lackluster strut front suspension’s and tire/wheel stagger. The mid engine, more central polar mass made the 986S very stable, but boring. The open differential prevented me from honing it around corners in the wet nor dry. I would get very bad wheel hop in the wet.

Having owned both, I’d never even consider owning a Boxster again. I prefer the roadster, but it just wasn’t exciting to drive. The 996 with the engine in the back seemed much more driveable. Both had understeer and lacked the ability for power on oversteer, but at least you could swing the weight around in the 996. My Boxster S was a lot more reliable than my 996, but I’m not sure if that was just luck. Both have the downsides M96 engine. Both are better at posing than motorsport fun IMO.

[URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/loudes13/media/10498333_10152660904294884_2534780998213054303_o_zps5eef4dea.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s8.photobucket.com/user/loudes13/media/boxster-986-s-autox_zps10627354.jpg.html][/URL]

Flame away…

For me, the answer was simple. I have kids, so 996 it is.

In addition, I am more fond of the facelifted 996.2 911 (the car pictured in the OP, and what I have ~ 2004 C2). It does a lot visually to separate the front end of the 911 from the Boxster.

I haven't had a chance to autocross/track the car yet (shame on me, I know), but I do experience the understeer mentioned by loudes13. From my reading, alignment and front sway bar upgrades can do a lot to minimize this behavior, but not eliminate it completely.

My car has been very reliable in the 10 months/13,000 miles I've had it, only needing a heater core (easy replacement, surprisingly), and a new battery. Everything else has been consumables; front tires, serpentine belt, oil changes. The flywheel is starting to make noise, but from what I understand, it's not a huge issue until the car starts to throw misfire codes. At that point, I'll swap the clutch/flywheel/RMS/IMS, and be done with any potential issues from that area of the car.

I love this car, and couldn't be happier with my choice.

BoxheadTim wrote: Ah, it *is* that time of year again. Popcorn, anybody? We've had that discussion a whole bunch of times. The outcome was always that the "Grassroots" part wasn't "Cheapskate Motorsports", it was grassroots because the magazine is targeted at motorsports enthusiasts who pay their own way, often but not always work on their own car and don't own multi-million dollar race teams. Or even get six figure sponsorship deals. The *average* new car purchase price in the US is around $32k at the moment. $45k for the sort of performance you get from a stock 996 turbo is a bargain by most people's standards in relation to that. Can people on this board build something faster for a lot less money? Yeah, most likely. Is it going to hold together like a 996 turbo that you can drive to pick up croissants in the morning and take to Laguna Seca in the afternoon?

Sorry guys...i don't recall any previous discussions on this topic but even if there was I don't think I would have all that much to add. It looks like you both have apparently dwelled on it quite a bit but it really doesn't matter that much... I guess I will just see you at next year's $45k challenge!

Am I the only person that realizes the definition of Challenge?

Am I jealous of someone just because they have a huge budget? Of course! LOL. But to me, "Grassroots" means working on your car in your garage, participating at a local/regional level. Budgets are typically lower because we are typically normal working folk who do this as a hobby, but that doesn't exclude people with better jobs and better toys from participating.