A car guy goes to LA and writes a terrible essay!

Good post. I am from a place that has the opposite problem. Young people go off to college or the military or where ever and do not return. The population has been shrinking since it peaked somewhere in the 1950's. Several of the bigger industries have scaled back or closed or just decided to poison the water. Other than opioids and fracking, there is not much growth industry in the area (and fracking peaked 4 or 5 years ago and seems to be declining). I haven't lived there since 1989 and at this point I do not ever plan on living there in the future.

I guess my point is, that as the big cities get bigger, they seem to get worse in many ways, but all those people are coming from somewhere and those places are not being made better by losing their populations and jobs going overseas or out of state.

Perhaps, these are both just symptoms of the overall decline of the country and not some California issue.

I went to SF a few years ago and really liked the parts of the trip that were outside the city.  But driving in the city sucked.  Autonomous cars should help alleviate the problem in time but it'll be 20 years before it's better.

My city of 200,000 is just right, thanks.

I grew up in San Diego and if I could afford it, I'd move back there.  I'd just make sure I lived close to where I worked and that I'd commute on a motorcycle.

Metro areas are growing, if they're desirable places to live.  It's up to the planners to adjust for the population growth and have the funds to pay for it all.  That means taxes.  If people aren't willing to pay for it, then you end up with LA.

I guess my point is, that as the big cities get bigger, they seem to get worse in many ways, but all those people are coming from somewhere and those places are not being made better by losing their populations and jobs going overseas or out of state.

Perhaps, these are both just symptoms of the overall decline of the country and not some California issue.

I drove through a lot of desolate emptiness and dead or dying towns on the way there and back. I absolutely get your point on that one and about it being a problem everywhere. That's part of what bothers me a little about LA, is that its problems don't feel contained or solved but emblematic of larger forces that just haven't reached the pain threshold yet in other places.

 I'm just sort of worried now about what the mass migration from rural to urban is going to do to all of us when the majority of the entire population of the nation is city dwellers who aren't dissatisfied enough about what sucks in their city to drive policy and technology in a better direction. I mean, the whole existence of cities more or less comes down to job proximity, and cities stayed pretty small until car travel at speeds far beyond walking became practical. But, if we end up spending 2-3 hrs per day commuting at near-walking speeds in a car anyway and don't ask ourselves what is the point of this 'proximity' any longer, it just seems like we're lazily sliding down a slippery slope to every city being a E36 M3hole wage slave colony that grinds up human happiness and dignity in return for the right to be a part of a declining proletariat, and cars stop being the emblem of personal autonomy and freedom that I grew up seeing them as. I dont know what the solution to it all is, but going to LA definitely made me ask myself the questions! I just hope that what I like about cars can survive whatever changes are coming. 

One of the fundamental issues with LA is that it is actively working against itself.  It's obviously high density, very little effective public transit (made worse by being wildly spread out employment and housing, so one train line solve almost nothing) and yet is actively trying to dissuade people from using their cars!  Some of the "solutions" are just asinine (bike lanes mentioned). E.g. they've added Fast Track lanes to some freeways, that you can pay for to use, so you can theoretically get less traffic. Well, if you give 3.5 seconds thought to this, the BEST can do is end up with the same traffic, it's guaranteed to increase traffic, otherwise it has no value!!

The one solutions that I can think of is: stop with this ridiculous and insanely expensive (= more taxes = more expensive to live) idea of creating mass transit trains etc.  Go full speed forward to support and encourage the creation and use of autonomous cars.  E.g. create special lanes in tight areas that are marked / lined to allow self-driving cars to operate at near peak efficiency.  Take all those buses wandering around semi-useless routes and implement an semi-Uber style call / taxi style service.

Like I say, I am glad I don' live closer.  Having access to LAX though is VERY useful if you like to travel, as you can get direct flights to many many places. I am also very glad I don’t live in LA county, so I don’t have to pay for their stupid ideas.

My next door neighbor has a bunch of programmers working for him. Increasingly those programmers are living in other countries. If I had a transportable skill set like that, I'd be very tempted to apply it in some neat semi-rural place.

If you look at statistics like those contained here: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ it would seem that urban/rural percentages are pretty stable. You'd think that there'd be a steady stream of retirees to the sticks where they can make their money go further, but even retirees need to be entertained, and want to be near their friends.   

aircooled said:

Well, if you give 3.5 seconds thought to this, the BEST can do is end up with the same traffic, it's guaranteed to increase traffic, otherwise it has no value!!

Economist here. While it's counter-intuitive, the evidence points to adding toll lanes as an effective way to reduce congestion. Why? It turns out many people have the flexibility to shift their commute times. 

The one solutions that I can think of is: stop with this ridiculous and insanely expensive (= more taxes = more expensive to live) idea of creating mass transit trains etc.  

Heavy rail is usually inappropriate everywhere outside of NYC and Chicago. Unfortunately, light rail and bus rapid transit have two connected problems. People don't like riding them, particularly the bus, because they are associated with poverty. As a result, they are not sexy to politicians, not to mention the corruption opportunities get bigger when the construction project gets bigger.

Not terrible.

Dave M said:

aircooled said:

Well, if you give 3.5 seconds thought to this, the BEST can do is end up with the same traffic, it's guaranteed to increase traffic, otherwise it has no value!!

Economist here. While it's counter-intuitive, the evidence points to adding toll lanes as an effective way to reduce congestion. Why? It turns out many people have the flexibility to shift their commute times. 

Probably true... of course in LA, commute time runs from 6-10 am and 4-7 pm, so not a lot of flexibility left there.  Heck, even the carpool lanes are as slow as the rest most of the time. This of course is made mostly possible by the fact that they have been allowing low emission vehicles to use them!

Here I am, just moved to Austin from town of about 70,000 people. Past couple of days at the end of my route it’s taking me over an hour to go 20 miles on highway and that drives me bonkers. And it’s worse driving tractor/trailer when people look at you like your the problem. 

I will say in my opinion the  2 biggest issues with people on highways and congestion

1. for some reason on ramps are literally put right before exits.

 2 there’s those idiots that want to constantly zig zag in and out of all the lanes forcing everyone else to slam on their brakes to avoid them. 

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

I’ve found Austin to be plagued with left foot brake riders too.  That adds another layer to the problem.  Honestly Austin is just a San Antonio suburb now like Conroe to Houston.  It’s non-stop city from Georgetown to downtown SA today.  It’ll be one giant I-35 city from Dallas to SA in my lifetime, most likely.

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

As a Texas transplant from the Midwest I have to say that to my mind the Texas DOT has zero clue how to build roads. I'm not sure how thousands of people don't die every day with how the ramps are designed. It's amazing really.

Texas DOT has zero clue how to build roads. I'm not sure how thousands of people don't die every day with how the ramps are designed. It's amazing really.

Well, as far as i can tell the onramps vary wildly here. Most in my area are what i would consider 'normal' although i10 on the east side of town has S shaped onramps that make you slow down before you can speed up, and you have to be trying to hit 55 or 60mph by the end of those ramps. I feel those are a poor design when the road traffic can be 70+.  

In California I ran into the onramps with stop lights at the end of them. To me those would be a deathtrap on a Texas road because you'd be going only 30-40 by the time you merged in with the people going 70. But, in CA it didn't seem to be a problem because nobody was ever going 70 past an onramp. You were merging in with people going the same speed or slower than you. It did seem to sort of solve the problem of people who stop at the end of onramps and you have to slam on your brakes to avoid hitting them. When EVERYONE has to stop, you've solved that problem! However, that fix brings to mind the term 'race to the bottom'. If only everyone was always stopped, noone would ever hit anything!  

I live in Los Angeles and refuse to drive a car whenever possible. Motorcycle only for me rain,snow or shine. 

In reply to Vigo :

Those onramp lights are only on sometimes.

It's funny how California cities used to draw in the tech workers that they could tax heavily. Now the tech workers are working remotely, leaving only the lesser-paid office job workers who commute hours every week. Of course, the weather is what keeps many in California, and I know plenty of people who will never leave, hour commutes, ridiculous housing prices, overpopulation be damned. They can't imagine living someplace with well...weather. 

One thing I've certainly realized living in the high COL southwest is that it's pretty damn hard to be a car guy when you can't afford a huge garage, or any garage. I could move back to Pittsburgh and for 150k have a nice house and a huge garage, but terrible roads, or move someplace with beautiful roads but pay at the wazoo for housing and no garage. Phoenix is at least a nice mix of those options.

Another benefit to inland west is the ability for automotive fun on public lands. Coastal California might have a few race tracks, but desert racing and rally is really popular in AZ, NM, CO, UT, NV, etc. This is something the mid-west and especially the east really lacks. Hard to having racing venues and even harder to race on public roads because there is so little public land that doesn't have tons of restrictions. I'd have a hard time living back in PA where a large amount of public land is a few thousand acres. I live on oh...about a few hundred thousand acres of public land. 

So while yea, Los Angelas might suck for car people, the rest of the west is pretty damn good. 

So how was the food !

Yeah , as a non local it can suck if you do not know the way around the bad traffic areas , 

Often I leave at 5am to get past the traffic jams and take a nap when I get to my destination before they are open !

Ohh and you forgot about the Big Earthquake that's going to make it  maybe the Great American disaster when it happens....

But did you go to Pomona Swap meet , or LA roadster show ?

Years ago I stayed at my friend's house in The Hague Holland , nice place but dog poop hell as everyone took them out to poop and no one picked up after them , 

My point - if you only look at the bad stuff you miss all the cool stuff , even if you get some dog poop on your shoes !

Texans tend to dislike the LA area and the transplants from there. I love seeing them clash here in San Antonio. 

I didn't get to do as much as i wanted to in LA. But, my general impression at this point is that I doubt there's anything in LA that would justify me stepping foot back into LA to see it. Maybe a fly and drive for another cheap 911, but maybe not since I could probably get an LA car shipped to my door for like $2-300 more. 

My dislike of big cities came from Houston (6 million), but even Houston has decent road infrastructure. My dislike of cities with goofy road infrastructure came from Austin (2 million). Now put E36 M3ty roads in a city 3 times the size of Houston and you can more or less just count me out. I'm a strange sort of car enthusiast. Sure, I like racing, car shows, parts scrounging, crazy projects and all the other fun stuff that revolves around cars, but 80% of my entire affection for cars comes from just being able to use any old one in a carefree way to just get around and enjoy the novelty of controlling large powerful machines in general. So, if commutes are E36 M3, most of my car enjoyment is gone. I'd rather give up all the enthusiast-y stuff than have getting into my car for the daily, mundane things be something i dont look forward to. 

A one way flight to LA is under $100 (I'm flying there and back next month for under $150) plus maybe $200-$300 in gas to drive a 911 back, who's your shipper? I need my conquest picked up lol

pheller said:

It's funny how California cities used to draw in the tech workers that they could tax heavily. Now the tech workers are working remotely, leaving only the lesser-paid office job workers who commute hours every week. Of course, the weather is what keeps many in California, and I know plenty of people who will never leave, hour commutes, ridiculous housing prices, overpopulation be damned. They can't imagine living someplace with well...weather.

Literally the opposite. The entire San Francisco Bay area is a nightmare of extreme real estate prices because it is clogged with tech workers. I don't know what you're thinking, because the Facebook/Google/Saleforce etc people live in San Francisco and have priced everyone else out. They ain't teleworking from rural Nevada.

I enjoyed reading your article. In this very moment I write an essay about gas stations in the USA :) Despite I am not very good in writing, this time a decided to write the essay by myself without getting in my canoe and rowing to the nearest editor, as I've done few times before. This topic is so fascinating for me. Maybe my mark won't be so high like it could be with special services but now it doesn't matter! I do my best.

I don't know how to solve these problems. North America brought wealth and a nice lifestyle to people in part because of cheap (or free) space and resources. Over time we've clogged it up with people like everywhere else. We need population growth to drive economic growth, or our lifestyles suffer. The price of housing in big cities is no longer affordable for people in the meaty part of the income bell curve. The lifestyle in these big cities is becoming increasingly different from the historical north american style of a yard and a car, etc. and involves hours per day of commuting. Once things get to a critical point, the only solution is mass transit.

Increasingly economic growth, jobs and particularly well paying jobs are located in big cities. It's not just people moving from rural areas to cities, it's intensification of the biggest/most successful places. As an example, in the last few years Toronto  (6.5M greater area) created more tech jobs than anywhere else in North America. However, in Toronto itself, downtown is where these jobs are. There's actually been a decline/relative decline in tech jobs in other areas of concentration of tech jobs in the area. How do cars exist in this world? Do they trend in the direction of horses, only relevant as recreation for people in rural areas?

The lifestyle in these big cities is becoming increasingly different from the historical north american style of a yard and a car, etc.

How do cars exist in this world? Do they trend in the direction of horses, only relevant as recreation for people in rural areas?

 I recently heard a statistic that something like 40% of all the land area in some US states is peoples' yards. Somebody is going to read that and think "that's outrageously inefficient! What is the utility of a yard?!" and someone else will read that and think "on average 40% of all space is between me and other humans" and see that as an upside. It's a values thing. When I was in LA I stayed with (parked the rv in their driveway) a family who had about an acre on a long, skinny neighborhood lot and kept horses in their suburban neighborhood. In the evenings they would take them out in the alleyway behind the house and ride them. I had mixed feelings about it. On one hand they're trying to take what they love and fit it into where they live, but on the other hand it seems like kind of a sad way of clinging to a lifestyle that you more or less signed away when you chose to move into that spot. They also had half a dozen enthusiast-y trucks back there, but i never saw them move even though half of them were drivable. If we ever get to a point where 90% of all jobs are in cities and require being present in-person (commuting) for, all cities might eventually become so congested that car enthusiasts are relegated to 'riding up and down the alley at night' for fun. 

Well... look on the bright side... eventually The Big One will happen and California will fall into the Pacific. 

(yes... I know it won't...)