Accident BEFORE brake recall (2017 GM 1500 etc.)

My Nissan Titan had a similar issue. Different cause, but similar result. My wife was driving, pulling up to the exit of a parking lot that met a major street. Pressed the brake pedal, and no brakes. She rolled right into the street. Luckily, no cars were coming at the time. She said it felt like the ABS came on and released the brakes. Turned out to be a software issue with the stability control. The truck was new at the time. I don’t know about some of you, but most drivers think it’s a reasonable expectation that pressing the brake pedal on a new truck will slow it down. 

My brother had a similar experience with his Dodge Ram, although it was due to poor service rather than a factory fault. He  had the oil changed at Walmart. Picked it up when done, and almost crashed at the first stop in the parking lot. He called me from the parking lot, and I figured out what was wrong as soon as he told me what happened. Some of you are probably wondering how an oil change leads to failed brakes. The first thing I asked my brother was, “So, you fell for the  fuel system cleaning?” He replied that he had, but wondered how that would mess with his brakes. I explained that all they did was run a can of cleaner through his intake manifold. Easiest way was through a vacuum line, the the brake booster line was convenient. They reinstalled it wrong, over a capped off port. Had he hit something, would that have been his fault?

Klayfish said:

But from just a tad of experience I'd honestly say I'm highly dubious of the drivers' explanation too.  Not that it couldn't be true, but rear end accidents from mechanical failure are extraordinarily rare.

Even when the scenario that occurred prior to the recall, and as specifically described prior the recall, directly correlates to the now active recall for this particular vehicle? Isn't that pretty much the definition of a plausible explanation?

In this type of scanario, you have to ask how much effort its worth to pursue.  

If a lot of effort is called for, you could likely prove his case by having the Event Data Recorder read by an accident reconstructionist. ($$$)   You would have 5 seconds of pre-crash data that would indicate when the brakes were applied and the rate of deceleration of the vehicle. 

At any rate: The magic words to use with the insurance company to get anything moving is to point out that they have a solid case for subrogating GM in this (meaning, make GM reimburse them for their payout to you).

Also (rather than using consumer reports...), you can get the official government documents regarding the recall from https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/CHEVROLET/SILVERADO%2525201500/PU%25252FEC/4WD#recalls

(click associated documents under the relevant recall).

This just isn’t adding up. 

If the brake pedal was on the floor, the driver would HAVE  to lift his foot off the pedal and apply the brakes a 2nd time, regardless of whether there was a failure or not. Driver didn’t say he did this. 

I think it’s very likely he never before felt what anti-lock brakes feel like in an emergency stopping situation. They pulse, and feel weird.  

Not sure why this matters at all. Sounds like insurance company has made everyone whole- done deal. 

In reply to SVreX :

I couldn’t stay away I guess. I admit it’s a flaw I continue to work on.

As far as never having felt ABS pulse, you must consider more information than you currently have. I’m confused why there are so many assertions with so little evidence to reach them. I guess it’s just where we are as a society.

The driver in question has been driving for over 30 years through at least 30 slippery New England winters. Actually, he’s driven through all four seasons, wet, dry and otherwise for over  30 years. My more informed assertion is that yes, he’s felt ABS pulsing the brakes before.

Edit: the reason it matters is that he was found at fault and has years of surcharges to pay and he believes his brakes malfunctioned due to the fact that the situation mirrored the recall circumstances to a “T”.

In reply to ebonyandivory :

The insurance company won't care.  His truck, his hands on the wheel.  It may very well be GM's fault, but they were not the insured.

I think he's screwed.

In reply to ebonyandivory :

You still didn’t explain the pedal going to the floor without him pressing the pedal a 2nd time.

It doesn’t matter. Your friend believes he had a brake malfunction, and I don’t doubt him. But he had an accident while driving. That’s all his insurance company cares about.

Believing he had a brake malfunction is a really long way from proving it.  He has no evidence.  He’s not gonna prove it.

Im not making assertions about your friend.  I am observing that he can’t prove it.  That’s all.

Move on.  Sorry.

A lot of talk about what was or wasn’t done, who believes what, and who is at fault. It makes for entertaining discussion, but is not really solving the problem. 

If he is really concerned about the surcharges and his insurance rate then he may have better luck appealing the points. Present the case and supporting evidence of the TSB/Recall and keep his fingers crossed. The appeals board may be more sympathetic and have a lower bar to clear than the courts.

The last option is to change insurance companies. Go to one that has accident forgiveness.

That is path we used. After SWMBO had an at fault accident and the insurance rates went up, I called my agent and we changed to Hanover. My cost for the next three years was probably the same as Travelers, but after three years the surcharges were done. 

It's not clear whether the EDR records any brake control data other than the brake pedal switch status:

http://opengarages.org/handbook/ebook/#calibre_link-496

With only that, you couldn't prove a mismatch between pedal pressure/position and deceleration that would indicate a malfunction. If there is ABS data or brake booster vacuum levels included then it could be possible to prove a malfunction.

Also the only way I can imagine a software update fixing a debris problem is by occasionally running the pump backwards when the car is in park/starting up/shutting down to clear debris out of the pump itself. Which seems like more of a quick bodge than a real fix.

Thank you guys for the several constructive, thoughtful suggestions.

Ill gather the bulk of them and give him something to think about. 

If this were my wife, the insurance company would end up buying her a new truck an pay off her insurance for the year. You should’ve seen her in action when both my Yukon’s got totaled and had a car lodged in our foundation.

As for my friend, he’s more likely to let it go and just chalk it up to bad luck. He’s not the bulldog my wife can be in these situations.

The brake pedal going to the floor is not a symptom of a failing brake booster. The recall references "hard brake pedal effort". Anyone who has experienced failure of a brake booster is used to having to press the brake pedal extra hard.

keithedwards said:

The brake pedal going to the floor is not a symptom of a failing brake booster. The recall references "hard brake pedal effort". Anyone who has experienced failure of a brake booster is used to having to press the brake pedal extra hard.

True, he might be incorrectly describing the lack of deceleration for the amount of pedal pressure being applied as "going to the floor," while it might feel that way in terms of pedal pressure ("flooring" the pedal by pressing it really hard by power-brakes standards) it wasn't what was happening in terms of pedal position. It might actually go to the floor if there was a hydraulic leak of some kind but then he wouldn't get any braking force without pumping the pedal.