Adding Insult To Injury?

Yesterday I received an EMAIL from the organizing club for the KNOX MOUNTAIN HILL CLIMB that I participated in for the first time last MAY long weekend. It was an ill fated event for me as on my fourth run up the mountain, I had a hard crash on a high-speed left-hand sweeper. I collided sideways with a concrete barrier and moved it almost a foot! My car is now a severely bent unibody hatchback that has been residing in it's trailer ever since. I have slowly been collecting suspension parts that I have easily been able to identify as needing replacement. My biggest hurdle that I can foresee so far is the cost of putting the car on a frame rack and seeing if it will re-shape to the point where I can replace the bent bits. There may be more issues that I am unable to diagnose for now, but it's all about baby steps. (And don't even mention cosmetics.) I have been trying to convince myself that somehow it will all come together and I will be able to participate in the 2017-60th Anniversary KNOX MOUNTAIN HILL CLIMB. Ever since I crashed, I've been thinking that this would be a Birthday Present to myself as I will be turning 60 at the end of this month. Anyway... This is the EMAIL from yesterday:

Hi Mark

Allen Reid

Wondering if any others have run into similar circumstances?

Team mates in road course racing have been billed for Armco replacement due to wrecks. That's pretty legit. Once though they tried to charge for repairing damage to the garage and the damage was already there!!

That's not abnormal. It stinks, but it's one of the costs of racing.

I ain't a lawyer, but what does all the paperwork you signed when you got to the event say? Did you accept liability for fixin' E36 M3 you hit?

Huh, I always assumed that damage to safety stuff done in the spirit of racing was considered "normal" and built into entry fees. If you drove into the concession building for fun-yeah, you should pay for that, but moving a barrier back seems like part of the cost of running an event (and not worth $400). I guess I learned something today.

Most every place I run has a 'you break it you bought it' policy. Even the police academy where we autocross. Hitting a water barrier there will cost you about $1200. And yes, it has happened.

Cheque? Knox mountain sounds like an American place!

You caused the damage n a single car wreck, you're responsible for the cost. The fact that your car is damaged and you don't have the money to fix it is irrelevant. Who do you think should be responsible for the cost?

It doesn't sound like he broke the barrier, just moved it. Repositioning costs $464?

Where can I get in on these lucrative repositioning gigs?

In reply to MDJeepGuy:

Well my several hundred dollar entry fee along with the other 67 competitors would have IMHO covered the cost of insurance for the 2 day event.

Dr. Hess wrote: I ain't a lawyer, but what does all the paperwork you signed when you got to the event say? Did you accept liability for fixin' E36 M3 you hit?

^^^THIS^^^

Most events have a "you break it, you fix it" policy, and I'd say that using heavy equipment to work with a concrete barrier close to the edge of a mountain would be high risk enough for a $464 bill. (Turn 5, right? Didn't get much news up at 8 other than that it was a pretty hard off).

I own 6 really expensive bags of speedi-dry from blowing an engine under the bridge at NJMP and NOT crashing. I paid $350 for "tire wall reconstruction" for landing on one. I didn't break any tires... just messed them up a bit. It's all part of the game. You usually do not get any services for free along with your track time. HPDE and school events sometimes self-insure students up to a point but I've never been in a sanctioned race where we had a buffer. You spill, bend or smash it - you buy it from the track at track prices. That blue ARMCO at the Glen must be made of titanium.

Payment for damages like this really is the norm. I have seen it many times.

Appleseed wrote: It doesn't sound like he broke the barrier, just moved it. Repositioning costs $464? Where can I get in on these lucrative repositioning gigs?

My thoughts exactly!

Printing up cards as we speak lol

When I used to run HPDE events with the BMW Club of Quebec, we had insurance that would cover damage to the facility up to a certain amount. I thought this was pretty standard stuff.

Now that I think of it, a buddy of mine put his (Turner Motorsports-built, 2.5L) E30 M3 into the Armco at the Glen. He was billed $1500 to replace 3 foam blocks and the club (Genesee Valley, maybe?) sent him the bill. So maybe the insurance I was talking about is a Canadian thing?

SCCA lists (zero deductible) "Damage to rented property" as part of their event insurance coverage. I'm guessing that not all organizations, especially smaller and more local ones with far more limited budgets/resources/history, can afford to do the same while also keeping entry fees reasonable.

I heard there were some pretty large bills charged to PCA and other clubs by Barber early on. Some for just tearing up turf. I knew at least one minor race team that wouldn't race there because of the risk of being charged for damage. This has since changed, but I don't know how, exactly.

That email makes it sound like payment is optional, but I expect that you'll never do another event with that club again if you don't pay it.

Having done mostly stock car racing I would have assumed my entry fee covered all of this. I've never been billed after a crash or blown motor.

Driven5 wrote: SCCA lists (zero deductible) "Damage to rented property" as part of their event insurance coverage. I'm guessing that not all organizations, especially smaller and more local ones with far more limited budgets/resources/history, can afford to do the same while also keeping entry fees reasonable.

I remember years back that the RallyCross supps said you had to pay $5 for every cone you damaged.

I understand having an "off" at the Nurburgring will incur some facility damage fees. This doesn't sound uncommon. I'd imagine some clubs would get insurance, but maybe not.

Charging for cone destruction at an autocross or rallycross sounds a bit picky. I've took a few out during my time and was never charged. Our club assumes replacing a number of cones every season and factors that into the entry fee and yearly budget. Just the paperwork alone for charging per cone would be annoying.

G_Body_Man wrote: Most events have a "you break it, you fix it" policy, and I'd say that using heavy equipment to work with a concrete barrier close to the edge of a mountain would be high risk enough for a $464 bill. (Turn 5, right? Didn't get much news up at 8 other than that it was a pretty hard off).

I have no knowledge of the event or corner, but even without knowing that I thought it sounded quite reasonable. How much does it cost someone to go out, inspect the damage. Call a crew who have to bring machinery, possibly on the back of a low loader to lift and reposition the several ton concreate block. Drivers, spotters etc. Seems quite cheap.

Head over and look at some UK forums where people go off and damage Armco at the Nurburgring. You often hear of £5-6,000 which up until BREXIT equaled $8,000+ USD, much less these days with the £ being worth so little, but still big bucks.

I always assumed the costs to repair damage to the course was to discourage driving beyond your limits. I hope you were not injured in the crash, it sounds like a doozy.

If you knick the safer barrier at COTA it's over 60k. I'll dig up my 84k invoice...

Dr. Hess wrote: I ain't a lawyer, but what does all the paperwork you signed when you got to the event say? Did you accept liability for fixin' E36 M3 you hit?

I'm willing to bet you did; every race I've run has a clause about damage to facilities. But even if you did not, plans to run the event again would be in jeapordy if you go lawyering on them and don't pay.

I don't keep copies of what I sign; looking back maybe that's a bad idea. I would have to ask event organizers for a copy if anything came up.