rslifkin wrote:
As far as E85 vs E10 running costs at a 20 cent / gal difference, it's going to depend on the vehicle. Some suffer a worse mpg penalty from E85 than others.
Well there are two reasons to use E85 if your car is set up for flex fuel. First it is cheaper on a per mile basis, second it's a lot more fun..
when Grassroots motor sports tested alcohol they found 15 more horsepower with Methanol and 7 more horsepower with E85 yes even over many times more expensive race gas!!!!! that was on a little Mazda engine on some big powerful engines you are likely to see a hundred horsepower or More!!
Don't forget NASCAR and INDY use ethanol! NHRA puts you in a higher class if you use alcohol..
frenchyd wrote:
First it is cheaper on a per mile basis
Sometimes, but not always. In some areas, E85 isn't really any cheaper than E0 or E10. And in some places, you'll have to drive far enough to get it that you'll be burning extra fuel every time you need to fill up.
In reply to rslifkin:
Frankly if I had to spend time to modify a street car or primarily street driven car I'm not sure I would either..
But a track car? You bet! Cheapest power for the money out there.. And if you have a flex fuel car having experienced the difference myself it's sure fun to feel the added power!!!
I'm certain there are exceptions to the lower cost and yes not all stations sell E85 . Plus not all cars are flex fueled capable.
In reply to frenchyd:
Oh yeah, for racing stuff, it's 100% worth it. Cheapest race gas you'll ever find.
In reply to rslifkin : have you ever doped your fuel? My local hobby shop sells nitro mixed alcohol which could be mixed with E85.
I realize the potential power gain even a tiny percentage of nitro offers and am anxious to give it a try
right now a 55 gallon drum of China white is about $1050 or $6.00 a gallon
in my day alcohol dragsters could make 1000 horsepower but 98% nitro engines make 5000
let me do a little wild guessing without any research 50% nitro would make 2500 horsepower would say 5% add 250 horsepower?
And 2% add 125?
Working in my world a 400 horsepower engine would add another 50 horsepower with 2%
No, I've never messed with it. I've never gotten into drag racing beyond an occasional test and tune night for fun, so chasing every last drop of power is generally low priority for me.
In reply to rslifkin :50 horsepower for a few dollars worth of fuel and drilling out some jets.
The first time I saw dope used was a sprint car race at the Minnesota state fair
a tired old Offenhauer 4 against the dominate Chevys first two time trials didn't get him qualified so they dumped about a pint in the tank and drilled out the jet. He qualified 5th in a field of 25.
For the race they dumped about a gallon in the tank with about 35 gallons of alcohol, he finished 3rd
In reply to frenchyd :
I wonder what nitro would to the cats in a modern car...?
I don't think it would help them.
WildScotsRacing said:
In reply to frenchyd :
I wonder what nitro would to the cats in a modern car...?
Don't you need the compression and cams to make the best of nitro?
mad_machine said:
WildScotsRacing said:
In reply to frenchyd :
I wonder what nitro would to the cats in a modern car...?
Don't you need the compression and cams to make the best of nitro?
When Grassroots tested alcohol and various gasolines they found that Alcohol made more power than even the best gasoline That was on a stock compression/stock cam Miata They said higher compression would yield even greater results.
I'm sure nitro added to alcohol would make a significant power improvement over alcohol. ( I don't know if it would make any improvement or even work in gasoline)
However the way your question was written "best" yes you would need to modify a stock engine to make "best" power. When I built an alcohol powered V 12 I also ported the heads because the volume of alcohol used was great enough that the port work would pay off .
Best isn't as important as just doing something. When racing starts you go with what you have and gain the driving skills racing can afford you. Waiting until everything is "best" denies you track time. I've won or placed well in many races I wasn't the fastest but I didn't make driving mistakes or break down. . ( I've also lost a few where I was the fastest but made mistakes or broke)
frenchyd said:
In reply to rslifkin : have you ever doped your fuel? My local hobby shop sells nitro mixed alcohol which could be mixed with E85.
I realize the potential power gain even a tiny percentage of nitro offers and am anxious to give it a try
right now a 55 gallon drum of China white is about $1050 or $6.00 a gallon
in my day alcohol dragsters could make 1000 horsepower but 98% nitro engines make 5000
let me do a little wild guessing without any research 50% nitro would make 2500 horsepower would say 5% add 250 horsepower?
And 2% add 125?
Working in my world a 400 horsepower engine would add another 50 horsepower with 2%
*$19.09/gallon.
I seem to recall reading that nitro won't mix with gasoline, but would the 10% ethanol in most pump gas now allow some nitro to mix in?
In reply to BrokenYugo : interesting question, what is the percentage of alcohol required to take advantage of the benefits of nitro?
You can go into any hobby shop and buy 45% nitro with the rest alcohol and some oil added. You can buy a little can right up to a gallon.
But how do you richen things up enough to use say even 2 or 3% nitro? Are flex fuel equipped vehicles capable of dealing with small percentages of Nitro?
