Always in the first couple laps of the first session...

Last weekend it was the "Sylvia" that clobbered the tire wall on the inside of T10 at Summit on lap 2 of session 1. Today it was a brand new (still on paper tags) Porsche GT3 RS that found the tire farm to drivers left between T2+3. Call me crazy, but if I had GT3 RS money I'd have "room for a trailer with a disposible track car" money too. Maybe to some people a GT3 RS ~is~ a cheap track car.

Edit: I was operating on minimal sleep and didn't have a lot of bandwidth to wander over the bridge to check out the Hyper-Festivities, but it looked like a howl. I'm not missing it tomorrow.

How do you hit inside of t 10..I've gone in to hot and eneded up about as far out as you can with out going in the kitty litter. and coming out of 2 just seems like a odd place to mess up. Now I have messed up going in to t 3 and backed in to the kitty litter there.

Hey, I've watched someone spin an Integra going down the strait between 7-8 at Thunderhill. For those unfamiliar with that track, 7 is barely a turn. The driver made a pass, got confused and panicked, overdrove the car while lifting the throttle.

Here is my unofficial list of cars most likely to have a newb lose contro ofl:

1. 2nd Gen MR2
2. S2000
3. Rear engined Porsche (driven by the middle-aged guy flaunting what hot E36 M3 he is)
4. Civic/Integra (driven by a 20-something)
5. 240sx dorifto car

1. STI/Evo w/ dumb 20-something who thinks AWD changes the laws of physics.

2. Corvette Z06 driven by the middle-aged guy flaunting what hot E36 M3 he is.

I might sub these for the Civic/Integra and S2k. Most of the Civic/Integra guys I see pretty much know what they're doing. Most of the S2k guys I see really know what they're doing.

In fairness, most of the 'vettes I see are well-driven, but there are just so many around these parts that you can't help but have a few bad apples.

damn near any rear engined car is tough. when you get a little out of shape and you get scared and lift an around you go. Some front engine rear drive cars do it aswell

lots of people go off inside at T 10 actually, they start to slide out, correct, let off and then slide into the wall. I've seen my dad's FC do that (in the rain first year he raced it) MG, and a Miata. T2-3 is odd to go off to the left, I saw an ITB BMW do that last year though. I'm racing my FV there next weekend! doing the test day too

I think the universal is anybody who talks about what hot E36 M3 they are. (The STi/Evo people tend to be the ones who I see pass in violation of the session rules.)

I think the S2k is kind of a polar opposites thing. Seems like the drivers are either amazing, or horrible. A few months ago, somebody stuffed their friend's S2k into the inside wall along the back straight at Thunderhill - first session. Definitely front suspension damage.

Salanis wrote: I think the universal is anybody who talks about what hot E36 M3 they are.

Ding, ding, ding.

Salanis wrote: (The STi/Evo people tend to be the ones who I see pass in violation of the session rules.)

That's partially my fault. I always point them by on the off-track side. Take that, rally boy!!!

For the humor-impaired, I'm joking.

MA2LA wrote: How do you hit inside of t 10..I've gone in to hot and eneded up about as far out as you can with out going in the kitty litter. and coming out of 2 just seems like a odd place to mess up. Now I have messed up going in to t 3 and backed in to the kitty litter there.

T2 is wide and guys usually get pushed off there right after the green waves.

T10 is a real commitment turn... you come down the hill going fast and turn in and need to go back to the gas AND stay with it. If you lift the car goes around ad hits in hard on the right. That tire wall has smashed a lot of cars that could have just had a little bumpy ride if they let it push right off the road on the outside.

motomoron wrote: Last weekend it was the "Sylvia" that clobbered the tire wall on the inside of T10 at Summit on lap 2 of session 1. Today it was a brand new (still on paper tags) Porsche GT3 RS that found the tire farm to drivers left between T2+3. Call me crazy, but if I had GT3 RS money I'd have "room for a trailer with a disposible track car" money too.

If I had a GT3 RS, you bet I'd have it on track! Of course, I'd probably take it a bit easy for the first session, but I'm a Bob Costas.

I've found that the more someone tells me what an awesome driver they are, the crappier I assume they are. At the last track day I ran, one kid introduced himself as "an excellent driver who's in a slow car". I gave him some extra room and placed him in the slowest run group. He managed STD.

walterj wrote: T2 is wide and guys usually get pushed off there right after the green waves. T10 is a real commitment turn... you come down the hill going fast and turn in and need to go back to the gas AND stay with it. If you lift the car goes around ad hits in hard on the right. That tire wall has smashed a lot of cars that could have just had a little bumpy ride if they let it push right off the road on the outside.

I guess i never thought of lifting in 10, but i guess with only 100hp on tap theres not much to get worried about but i have had the wheel turn more to the left than i liked at the time.

I ran my second SCCA Drivers' School at Summit Point in 1978. I worked for a BMW/Alfa dealer and a bunch of us threw together a 2002. A guy who was crewing for a friend of ours bought an Alfetta sedan and put a bar in it so he could road race. Long story short, he made it into Turn Three on his first open practice lap and rolled...

Every time I go to Summit Point's Main course (actually, any of their courses) I see somebody crash a car. I'm not talking about wheel to wheel racing either. I'm still amazed at the Viper that spun off to the inside of turn 9 and crashed into the trees. It was damp out that day though.

mel_horn wrote: I ran my second SCCA Drivers' School at Summit Point in 1978. I worked for a BMW/Alfa dealer and a bunch of us threw together a 2002. A guy who was crewing for a friend of ours bought an Alfetta sedan and put a bar in it so he could road race. Long story short, he made it into Turn Three on his first open practice lap and rolled...

sideways + gravel = barrel roll

It is one of the best tracks in the country to drive but Summit Point should have a sign for people visiting there for the first time that just says:

"WARNING: To be fast here you have to be smooth and a little early. Build up to it and in the event of error straighten the damn wheel!".

Keith wrote: If I had a GT3 RS, you bet I'd have it on track! Of course, I'd probably take it a bit easy for the first session, but I'm a Bob Costas. I've found that the more someone tells me what an awesome driver they are, the crappier I assume they are. At the last track day I ran, one kid introduced himself as "an excellent driver who's in a slow car". I gave him some extra room and placed him in the slowest run group. He managed STD.

He may have had a different idea of excellent driver. I have all kinds of awards, but an annoying tendancy to stop every three blocks. I saw a GT3 out in yesterdays monsoon. It was filthy, had a some dings and scratches, and the remains of some shoe polish numbers on the windows. Just how mine would look.

walterj wrote:

mel_horn wrote: I ran my second SCCA Drivers' School at Summit Point in 1978. I worked for a BMW/Alfa dealer and a bunch of us threw together a 2002. A guy who was crewing for a friend of ours bought an Alfetta sedan and put a bar in it so he could road race. Long story short, he made it into Turn Three on his first open practice lap and rolled...

sideways + gravel = barrel roll It is one of the best tracks in the country to drive but Summit Point should have a sign for people visiting there for the first time that just says: "WARNING: To be fast here you have to be smooth and a little early. Build up to it and in the event of error straighten the damn wheel!".

Or just a sign that has the phone number of a local towing company. Don't even label it. Just put a big sign up with "1-800-869-4663". They'll crash and in an instant, they'll figure out what the sign was for.

Summit, ahhh one of my favorite love hate tracks. Had friend get killed there in a laydown kart back in the mid 90's when BSR thought dirt burms were a good idea for a safety feature. Lost his brakes going into T1 and LAUNCHED into the trees. No gravel nothing to slow him down, RIP Dave. The most interesting wreck I ever saw was in turn 9 during the Thunder race with NASA a guy in a factory 5 lost the A$$ end, tank slappered a bit then went far far into the woods on the inside. The race was, well the day was red flagged of course. But well into the evening with lots of chainsaws a humming that damn car came out of there with only some minor cracks to the front corner. UNBELIEVABLE! With some copious use of duct tape he was able to run on Sunday. Anyway I have to agree that the guys who boast the loadest are usually the slowest/scariest to instruct or be around on track. One of our local Pgh. auto-x guys, can't rember his name though found it out the hard way. Had way to much money and managed to roll his RUF 911 a few times at a track day a while ago at Nelson's. Its to bad though since he had to drive the Ferrrari after that.

motomoron wrote: Maybe to some people a GT3 RS ~is~ a cheap track car.

Yeah, but the wait for a new one is boring!

Or, maybe some can afford a GT3 RS but not the additional expenses of a tow rig, trailer, or replacement costs. I bet that a lot of guys who kill cars like that are still paying for them two or three years later. And driving their, ugh, BMWs to work like mere peasants.

Seriously, what else are you supposed to with a GT3 RS if not track it? It ain't much good at pulling a trailer.

I learned a good lesson yrs ago at my SCCA drivers school when a guy arrived with matching van and trailer and his brand new Sports Renault. He spun it in the first session in traffic and parked the car with a for sale sign.

^^^ More like HE learned a lesson...

mel_horn wrote: I ran my second SCCA Drivers' School at Summit Point in 1978. I worked for a BMW/Alfa dealer and a bunch of us threw together a 2002. A guy who was crewing for a friend of ours bought an Alfetta sedan and put a bar in it so he could road race. Long story short, he made it into Turn Three on his first open practice lap and rolled...

After a successful weekend ( for me= I didn't do anything stupid) we were on the 2nd lap into our 10 lap races. A 510 and I ran off and hid and came up on a Vega (not even a Cosworth) STOPPED DEAD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRACK AFTER START/FINISH AFTER BREAKING A U JOINT AND HE GETS OUT OF THE CAR TO ASSESS THE DAMAGE!

He didn't get signed off, needless to say...