Am I the only one who struggles to get over the "great car, but it's an auto" hump?

captdownshift wrote: find me an automatic that has a real life expectancy of beyond 200k miles and maybe I'll start to respect them.

Yep!

236K out of the GM auto in my last e46 sedan.

266K for the 700r4 in my C1500

Any automatic transmission not made by Chrysler will last over 200k if you do proper maintenance.

I've found that an auto-box doesn't have to be a fun killer, as long as it is fitted to the right car, and it is a good automatic. That said, I've never driven an automatic transmission in a performance car that I would prefer to a manual. I am not Michael Schumacher, I don't care if my lap times would be a few hundreds of a second faster with an automated box. If I'm racing for money--- absolutely. I don't race for money.

For instance the new Jaguar F-Type R is an amazing machine. The Jag is beautiful, fast, rorty, and did I mention beautiful? It also is not available with a clutch pedal. (the lesser F-Type models are, but not the R) Does this mean I hate the Jag? Hell no, I love it.

Would I lust after this car more if it was available with a manual?----yes, yes I would. I also have no interest in fantasizing about any new Ferrari, as none of them are available with a clutch pedal. Now none of this matters, as these cars are WAY beyond what I can afford, but for ME--- if it is a performance car, and it doesn't have a clutch pedal--- I don't really want it.

However, the auto in my minivan is perfect--- and very handy if I break my left leg, sprain my left ankle, or get stuck in traffic.

It's still a dealbreaker for me. I like sedans/hatches/wagons. I have a 2014 Accord EX with an M6. I think there are only three mid-size sedans that still offer three-pedals.

Accord, Mazda6 and Passat.

I may look at a "small" sedan (Elantra Sport or Jetta) next go around, as they are close to mid-size size.

Joe summed up my feelings very well.

My work box truck is an auto, had no manual option. The occasion auto quirks piss me off to no end, but i don't think it would overall be a better work truck with a manual. It would probably be much worse. It's a box van. It's not going to be fun. I don't care if it's fun. Work isn't about fun, it's about work. I care that it works, and it does.

For my personal driving around car, i do care if I enjoy driving it. I haven't found an auto i enjoy driving, so i don't want an auto. If i'm shopping for a car and i see auto, i immediately close the window. It's not a 'hump' for me, it's a bottomless pit of undesirability. I'm not looking for ET's, I'm not looking for scalpel like control when driving to the grocery store at legal speeds, I just want to enjoy driving the car.

If you think autos are just as enjoyable, get one and enjoy it. Buy a Prius with a CVT for all I care. i don't understand the anger. It's your money, your car. I drive my car, you drive your car. Get what you want.

mad_machine wrote: Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, and Baltimore on a regular basis. The low crawl gears were great on the cross bronx

That's what I liked about the dual range in my Subaru (the deep one, not the RX performance one) Throw it into Low and 1st gear and just idle the thing. More often than not it was the perfect speed.

For a DD, I'll pass on the manual transmission. I drive 50K+ miles. 90% of that in city traffic. I have no interest in shifting all those gears.

Track cars, a manual is fine, but I'd drive a good auto as well.

Off road vehicles, give me a auto. Infinitely variable torque control, FTW.

Tow vehicles, I actually prefer a manual. Being able to use 100% throttle, without causing a downshift, is nice.

Knurled wrote:

mad_machine wrote: Boston, NYC, Philly, DC, and Baltimore on a regular basis. The low crawl gears were great on the cross bronx

That's what I liked about the dual range in my Subaru (the deep one, not the RX performance one) Throw it into Low and 1st gear and just idle the thing. More often than not it was the perfect speed.

absolutely, you just barely crawl along while people in regular cars are moving in spits and spurts

kanaric wrote: No matter how great someone claims a slushbox auto is when you drive it in like autocross or something it is limiting.

Driving a manual can be limiting if you're not terribly good at it or, say, have really bad knees or something.

The VW DSG is better at being at shifting a manual than I am, and I've been driving manual transmissions for almost 30 years.

What irks me is that you can't get the LSD option from the dealer in an automatic Miata.

Sky_Render wrote: Any automatic transmission not made by Chrysler will last over 200k if you do proper maintenance.

Also the 727.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Driving a manual can be limiting if you're not terribly good at it or, say, have really bad knees or something.

What about both?

I've only owned two manual trans cars, out of many. Both were BMW's and both were very good. I've had plenty of fun and got much enjoyment out of automatic equipped cars. All of my really powerful cars have been automatic.

I really liked that in my Impala SS if you left it in first it would shift up to second at redline and hold second while bouncing off the rev limiter. It would also downshift on it's own back into first at a pretty high RPM, which came in handy on the autoX course in a decreasing radius sweeper that really tightened at the exit. The car would downshift and the ass end would swing around lining me up perfectly to get on the power for the following straight.

I've only had one auto transmission failure over the years, through all of the abuse I've dished out. I still can't shake the stigma that has been implanted since forever that automatics are fragile. That's my only niggle with them, even though my own experiences haven't shown that to be true, I still look at them as being fragile.

In my experience, manual trans cars command a premium over autos. I love the act of heel-toeing and the general involvement that a manual brings but it's not a mandatory requirement for me. I could go either way.

Knurled wrote:

Sky_Render wrote: Any automatic transmission not made by Chrysler will last over 200k if you do proper maintenance.

Also the 727.

And the 46RH / 46RE, which are just updated 727s with an OD unit stuck to the back (and an electronic governor on the RE). I'm at almost 219k on mine (with more than stock power going through it for the last 100k) and I've heard of others making it past 300k with just maintenance. And then there's the horror stories on the truck forums of killing 2 of them before 120k (no maintenance and towing without adequate trans cooling is usually to blame).

A friend of mine told me he spent years perfecting his smoothness racing with manual transmissions. Now his race car has an automatic with paddle shifters. But it is the fastest race car he has and his team has been very successful.

trucke wrote: A friend of mine told me he spent years perfecting his smoothness racing with manual transmissions. Now his race car has an automatic with paddle shifters. But it is the fastest race car he has and his team has been very successful.

Damn, that's a dead ringer for the weekend toy I was planning to buy for my $10k budget. Screw it, I'm going for an auto...

I found that backing a trailer into limited space is much easier with a automatic than a manual.

I have done both. I didn't like slipping the clutch.

truck/4wd? Auto. Large cruiser? Auto. small engine? manual. Motorcycle? duh. Ain't gonna hate on anyone either way. Wife and I are getting old enough and we've had enough surgeries that having an auto around has made it much easier on us. But still have the manual for the rest of the time.

Bobzilla wrote: Wife and I are getting old enough and we've had enough surgeries that having an auto around has made it much easier on us. But still have the manual for the rest of the time.

That's what my wife keeps telling me. I'm not getting any younger. I've had both knees scoped, one hip repair and live with plenty of joint pain. Plus I creep through traffic a lot. It's not a man card thing, it's not a macho thing, not a superior driver thing (hell, I'm one of the slowest drivers on my race team), it's just a "I enjoy it" thing.

iceracer wrote: I found that backing a trailer into limited space is much easier with a automatic than a manual. I have done both. I didn't like slipping the clutch.

Yes. I was trying to back up a trailer full of mulch on wet grass in my back yard with my wife's SUV. Which is FWD. Lots of clutch slippage. Auto would've made that a lot easier.

In reply to Klayfish:

Here is my take on automatics vs manuals. I personally will always take a manual if available, this is becoming less of an option because most automakers are not making most models with manuals anymore. This thread is even more relevant to me personally because I work at ATI, you know the damper/automatic tranny place. They basically hired me for my automotive knowledge, even though I knew squat about automatics and told them as much that I hate them in fact...... so I thought I would add this first as background irony before I discuss my opinion on auto vs manual. I've always prefered manuals on my fun cars and still do, but after having two cars in a row that developed automatic troubles, I'm sticking to manuals when available. Our last car my wife drove was a 08 Mazda 5 with an automatic, and the tranny gave up the ghost around 120k miles, now at this point, was the same range that the auto trannied Mazda tribute we had prior to that also developed issues only we traded that in on the 5 when it started. Anyway the dealer doesn't repair trannys anymore they just R&R my options at the time for the 5 were replace with new factory tranny for $5k or junkyard replacement for $1500 which may or may not be worse then the one being replaced.....so I took it to AAMCO for a rebuild, which turned out to be $3k in the end but at least it came with a warrentee the worst part is 2 months later we got a new car and the the amount they gave us for the trade in was $3500, so when we ordered my wifes new car a 2015 subaru forester we ordered (because we had to)it with a manual trans because I've changed subie clutches before and I know that in a pedestrian forester that should be the only problem I should have with the tranny. My Toyota Tacoma is also a 6 speed manual for the same reason. The money I saved not getting an auto in the forester more then paid for the other options I had added to car as well, and makes the car better more responsive and faster then the same car with a CVT auto tranny as well. The other reason I prefer a manual if nothing else is that it is now being called a Millennial theft prevention device, because they are not being taught how to drive manuals anymore. There are only two scenarios where I would prefer an auto and they are driving long distance ie vacation traffic (DD traffic doesn't bother me) and pulling/maneuvering a trailer, and that is it. I'll take a manual every other time!

Chris Rummel

The struggle is real. I can't bring myself to own another auto. Currently my daily driver is a 2016 Golf R with a 6-speed manual... and my weekend playtoy is also a manual (AP2 Honda S2000).

I've now owned 20 cars and I think maybe ~4 of them have been autos. Every time I think "maybe an auto would be nice" and buy one, I end up regretting it within a couple months.

I've owned an Infiniti G37x with their 7-speed auto. If pulling away from a stop, it UP-shifted very quickly and seamlessly. The problem was downshifting- the damn thing seemed very confused and if I wanted to drive it in a sporty manner or just pass someone on the freeway, it never knew which gear to select. On the freeway, it would shift from say, 7th, down to 5th, then it would realize that I wanted all the power, so it would change it's mind and shift to 4th/3rd. I tried using the paddles, but there was a substantial/noticeable delay. Just not my cup of tea.

I even had an Audi A3 with DSG for a while. For all the praise people give the DSG, I didn't like it. Annoyed the hell out of me, due to the following:

-Pulling away from a stop light, it sometimes felt like a teenager learning to work a clutch. It was a bit inconsistent and I felt I could drive a 3-pedal manual smoother myself.

-It would downshift while braking to come to a stop and that altered the braking force required to stop. Probably a great thing on a racetrack, but annoying when you're driving light to light to light. For instance, you're going ~45mph, slowing for a light, you press the brakes giving them ~30% pressure, the DSG downshifts from 6th to 5th/4th/3rd, and all of the sudden you're braking with considerably more force and remove some pressure from the pedal.. then the engine braking effect dissipates, so you apply more brake pedal, then it downshifts again and to brake smoothly to have to remove more pressure from the pedal... I don't think most people would notice it, but it annoyed the hell out of me.

Basically, I felt as though I could drive a manual smoother than the DSG. And, well, I can. But my biggest issue is the lack of the transmission doing what I want it to do. Sure, I can control it with paddle shifters, but if I'm going to go through the trouble of shifting myself, I would rather just have a clutch pedal and old fashioned stick shift.

This may not apply as an answer for you, but my answer to same question ended up being I'm keeping my (insert whatever flavor) 96 civic manual forever so that I will always have a car that is manual, mechanical rack and pinion, no puters to help me in any way shape or form, and in this case not even ABS. Its really cheap and reliable and has a million dollars worth of 'driving experience'. Ive come to like modern auto boxes getting to and from life's duties.

I used to be all about manuals and recently bought a jaguar xjr (auto only) while i was searching cts-v and m5's. I thought the auto would make me regret the purchase (price was too good to regret to be honest). But, I'm happy I dont have to shift gears everyday. My commute to work consist of 14 traffic lights in 6 miles. I do occasional canyon drives near my house but I've never said "man i wish it was a manual" afterwards. On the other hand, there's cars I would not buy auto and cars I would not buy in manual. I wouldnt buy any Porsche in 6speed flavor if available with PDK. I also wouldnt buy any auto sports car like Miata, mustang, corvette unless it's a PDK Porsche of course. So I guess I'm 50/50 with it. Moving to southern california and my deriorating knees have given me new found respect for autos.