yupididit wrote: price was too good to regret to be honest
Yes, yes it was. I'm still British Racing Green with envy over that one.
yupididit wrote: price was too good to regret to be honest
Yes, yes it was. I'm still British Racing Green with envy over that one.
I've been daily driving a manual transmission car every day since around 2002. I'm used to it. Those cars were all small cars: 2002 VW Jetta, 2002 WRX, 2009 WRX, and 2012 Mazda 3. A good chunk of that time was in rush hour traffic in the Boston, MA area, and that sucks. Why did I do it? Because I think that small, nimble cars are infinitely more interesting when you have something to do while loafing around in them. It makes you feel like you are one with the machine.
That said, I prefer bigger cars and trucks with automatics. Also, some cars with sporting intentions feel just fine with an automatic. My parents picked up a 2014 Infiniti Q60 (the rebadged G37 coupe) with AWD and the 7-speed auto. My dad's got two replacement knees, and my mom can't drive stick anyway, and the AWD models don't offer the 6-speed manual either. That thing has a fantastic automatic! It doesn't have flappy paddles, and it doesn't need them. It's no slushbox. It shifts logically and when you want it to. And man, it MOVES.
My Trans Am has a TH350 in it right now with a 2200 (IIRC) stall converter in it. It's also not boring. When that inevitably blows up, I have a TH200-4R to rebuild for it. I could care less if it has a stick. I have a Hurst Dual Gate instead. 
In response to roninsoldier83:
Infiniti offered a flash of the transmission software that took away almost all of the issues you described. I was almost ready to trade mine in because of just what you described but then I had it flashed and it was sooooo much better. Now if they could just have a flash to loosen the tight grip on the traction control, It would be perfect.
On the whole auto v manual debate. I've had crappy of both and really good of both. To me it's more the extra idiot proofing computer controls in the form of traction control and all of that garbage that kills the fun. For a pure toy car, it would be a manual with no traction control but I'm perfectly fine with the auto in the cruiser/traffic beater.
it's funny, I have owned a LOT of manual shift cars, and the transmission I have the fondest memories of rowing the stick in was the unit in the Fiat 124. Super fragile and made of glass, but so effortless and smooth.
The BMW Getrag units are good and smooth, but because they are much tougher than the fiat unit, nowhere near as nice to run up and down the gears in
I used to be a lot more set in stone on this, but now? Nah. For a daily driver/winter beater, really doesn't matter a ton. My two most recent winter beaters were a Loyale with a 3-speed auto and my Grand Cherokee.
Also depends on the power band. A powerband like my Miata, there's no way I would want an automatic. But I drove my friend's '69 Firebird with a healthy 455 and a TH400 and at no point did I ever think "Boy, this would be better with a stick shift." I was too busy strangling the steering wheel every time I whacked opened the secondaries and just let the TH400 do it's thing
I might be in the minority here, but a large car with a manual is fun beyond measure, IMO.
In reply to the thread topic and not having read the posts-
Yes. All the damn time, yes. I search craigslist daily and do the 'man, I bet that'd be a hell of a car if it were a manual'
Current 'If it were a manual it'd be in my garage' wet dream- E39 540it 6-speed. I've seen a couple swapped, but they're pretty much unobtanium.
A manual Lexus sportcross would be in my driveway had Lexus offered one.
It's not about performance or any other objective value - I just like being in control and involved. My wife would say it is an issue that applies beyond just the transmission
In reply to jfryjfry:
"Involved" is the word. Driving stick requires development of an interesting skill and it's fun.
Forgive me for retelling this: My mother began driving in the 1940's, before widespread use of automatics. Sometime in the 80's my mother commented that she would never go back to a manual because "I don't want to have to think that much about it." I responded: "Maybe you shouldn't be driving at all." Fortunately for me, everybody agreed that was hilarious.
in the 30+ years that my wife and I have been driving, most of the cars have been stick. I had a few trucks, and SUV and a G35x that were autos.
In that time I have had to replace 4 auto transmissions and zero clutches, or any other maintenance on the stick cars.
I have driven cars with flappy paddles and felt stupid. The trans will shift better then me, so I left them in auto (as I would guess 99.9% of people with flappy paddles do).
Currently have a stick 2013 Mustang Vert (cross shopped the Infiniti G37 vert but the top took up ALL the trunk space). also have a stick 2010 Miata.
If I'm forced to buy an automatic vehicle, I almost always make sure its one that can easily be converted in case I get too bored.
Its why I have two T56s in the garage right now. One is set up to go in the Impala SS, one is set up to go in the 67 LeMans. My other vehicle is an 02 F150-7700. It is 4x4 so it won't be a slam-dunk swap, but a ZF6 is possible.
I simultaneously love and hate automatics for towing. I slightly prefer auto for backing and starting moving when towing 10k, but having run transmission repair shops for so long I know what towing does to the guts of a slushbox. Its almost more work for me to outsmart the computer, vary my right foot, and sometimes manually move the shift lever to prevent perceived damage than it would be to just row through a manual. The truth is, none of the trucks really make an auto that is good for HD use, or if they do, they soften it too much to make it "sophisticated" for daily driving and it fries clutches.
Dad's Dmax with the Allison is a good example. Its a monster of reliability in up to 26k lb commercial trucks. But in the smaller pickup trucks, its tuned for pretty soft shifts, so they added an algorithm to defuel a bit during shifts. They softened the transmission, then softened the engine. I would rather have a good firm shift to avoid friction instead of multi-sensor arrays and 64-bit processor algorithms trying to make compromises. Let the engine be the engine, and let the ECM send a signal to shift. Period. No pulse-width-modulation, no wimpy tiptoeing around, just shift dammit.
Rusnak_322 wrote: I have driven cars with flappy paddles and felt stupid. The trans will shift better then me, so I left them in auto (as I would guess 99.9% of people with flappy paddles do).
I think that is primarily because the flappy paddles are awful. Flappy paddles on an automatic are usually just an override of the shift lever. You can get the same exact effect by putting the shifter in first, then second, then third...
I have to laugh at the bump shift in mom's Caddy SRX. It is such a joke. Instead of "manual" mode, it needs to be called "suggestion" mode.
Something like a twin-clutch Audi is different. There is a big difference between a manually controlled automatic and an automatically controlled manual.
In reply to curtis73:
I agree with the hate for mushy shifting autos. There's a reason the one in the Jeep has a shift kit and a few turns on the line pressure screw (and the timing cut on shifts deleted from the ECU). There's nothing quite like barking the sticky-ish summer tires a little when it grabs 2nd at WOT.
Five pages of this.... I'm not reading through it. The thing is, if shopping for a sports car that means it's likely rwd. If it's rwd, you can't clutch kick it for donuts and drifts. If you can't donuts and drift the sports car thing is pointless. At that point just buy a convertible fwd. there are some things that should have an autotragic, no matter how good It is.
In reply to Trackmouse:
If your only purpose of driving a car is for "clutch kicks" and the like, you don't want a "sportscar" as that isn't what they are meant for.
Sky_Render wrote: Any automatic transmission not made by Chrysler will last over 200k if you do proper maintenance.
Yeah... I can't really agree when it comes to RWD like trucks. I rebuilt a lot of them around 100k and they are EXPENSIVE.
curtis73 wrote:Sky_Render wrote: Any automatic transmission not made by Chrysler will last over 200k if you do proper maintenance.Yeah... I can't really agree when it comes to RWD like trucks. I rebuilt a lot of them around 100k and they are EXPENSIVE.
From what I've seen of autos that do and don't last, a lot of the blame for that falls on manufacturers that don't install adequate trans cooling (and the owners run the things flat out without adding more cooling) and owners that never change the fluid or do any other maintenance. Even in heavy use, well cooled, well maintained autos seem to last just fine. FWIW, the one in my Jeep has seen countless WOT pulls (including some with 6k lbs of trailer on the back), it's pulled trailers, etc. and none of that has hurt it at all.
Toyman01 wrote: Off road vehicles, give me a auto. Infinitely variable torque control, FTW. Tow vehicles, I actually prefer a manual. Being able to use 100% throttle, without causing a downshift, is nice.
All of my off road trucks have been manuals. I can push/pull/coast start if starter fails or the battery is dead.
In reply to outasite:
True, but having spent many hours driving both, I'll stick with the auto. I have a jump box in the back and dealing with a dead starter or solenoid is a minor problem.
Stefan wrote: In reply to Trackmouse: If your only purpose of driving a car is for "clutch kicks" and the like, you don't want a "sportscar" as that isn't what they are meant for.
I couldn't disagree more. What does the winner do at the end of any race? Donuts.
Trackmouse wrote:Stefan wrote: In reply to Trackmouse: If your only purpose of driving a car is for "clutch kicks" and the like, you don't want a "sportscar" as that isn't what they are meant for.I couldn't disagree more. What does the winner do at the end of any race? Donuts.
The NHRA really, really frowns on that.
In reply to Knurled:
Yeah they are the exception here. But the majority of drag cars are also automagic too.
I would be psychotic enough to want to drive a Lenco on the street. It would be brutal.
I don't care for automatic transmissions much at all... don't like how driving experience is with them, don't like the extra cost associated with them (manuals much cheaper over vehicle life), they always adds extra weight (not an insignificant ammount usually either), and if/when the starter fails you're stuck and not going anywhere. Will never buy a vehicle with automatic by choice.
Right now I'm looking for a unicorn it seems; want to get a 2010+ Nissan Frontier with the 4L V6, 6spd manual, King Cab, and 4x2 for ~$15k...can find 4x4 manuals, 4x2 Crew cab manuals, or the 4 cylinder 5-spd manual King Cab 4x2... but not what I'm really looking for. Would have to settle for either the automatic or the crew cab, and it ain't going to be the automatic...
Vracer111 wrote: I don't care for automatic transmissions much at all... don't like how driving experience is with them, don't like the extra cost associated with them (manuals much cheaper over vehicle life), they always adds extra weight (not an insignificant ammount usually either), and if/when the starter fails you're stuck and not going anywhere. Will never buy a vehicle with automatic by choice.
In my cars, the auto has not cost any more to maintain over the life of the car (last E38 I owned from 143k to 185k miles and the transmission cost zero, so far with the current E38 over two years the trans has cost zero and the previous owner never had to pay for anything with the trans, either, and it's at 168k now). In a 4100 lb sport sedan like the 740i, there is no weight cost, either. And the guys that have done a 6 speed manual swap have not reported any weight LOSS. The 2004R trans I swapped into the kid's '79 Chevy pickup weighs less than a manual trans for that same year truck. So maybe, you're a bit wrong about "always." The AOD in my V8 RX7 weighed about the same as the 5 speed manual. And it cost less than swapping in a T56.
Yeah, if the starter dies, you might not get it moving again, but if the water pump dies, you're not going anywhere, either, and that's more likely in most cars. I mean, complaining about ONE potential problem area while ignoring others is kind of silly. If you lose the clutch slave cyl (it's happened to me) you aren't going to get it going from a stop sign, so why not worry about that with a manual? Because you want to cherry-pick potential problems to prove the automatic is somehow worse, that's why. It's BULLE36 M3. I had a manual trans car get stuck in 1st gear and had to drive it back across town like that to ultimately take it apart and fix it. Should I say that manuals are more troublesome and costly due to that experience?
Go ahead, look for your special unicorn to prove you're somehow more of a man. Just don't use spurious and easily countered arguments to show why. I've had over 130 cars and over 75% of them have been manuals. I'm going to say it again, I love a good manual trans car. But, I'm not going to discount a good car with an auto, because I'm not a closed minded moron.
I love my E38 the way it is, and it's a great driver's car even with the steptronic trans in it.
Perfect for both daily driving and long distance trips (like the trip to upstate NY I made over the Christmas weekend, spending two hours in stop and go traffic on the way home, making it an 8 hour trip from Albany to Baltimore)
You'll need to log in to post.
