An Appreciation of the Classic 3dr Hot Hatch

The prevailing trend of cute-utes and monster-trucks doesn't look like it's gonna be over any time soon, and even in Europe the 3dr hatch is becoming more of a rare bird...

...this article is from 2017 and I imagine that it's only worse by now:

https://www.jato.com/europe-says-goodbye-3-door-hatchs/

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I was sorta hoping that since the traditional ICE 3dr hatch bodyform seems to be pretty dead that at least it might make a comeback with new gen EV stuff even as averse to electric cars as I am, would welcome such a thing happening but remain quite skeptical of an EV hot hatch being able to deliver anything comparable to the massive sensory experience of a good ICE hot hatch...

...I do like the way they look though, from what I've seen.

The Honda E looked sweet in the concept stage, but a little more dumpy when reality hit with actual production, and we didn't get any either.

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The Abarth 500e does look fun though, despite the cringe of fake exhaust sound + all the other negatives associated with battery-powered automobiles, I mean the fake sound isn't too bad I guess, but still...

...you can hear it with a soundclip here:

https://www.abarth.com/new-abarth-electric-500e

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I might be forced to join THE DARK SIDE though if this thing somehow miraculously popped up for sale over here just because it's breath-takingly rad to the max!

Renault totally slayed with their R5 TURBO 3E

Over-the-top in the best kind of way!

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Attention to detail is incredible.

I could live in a cockpit like this while bladerunning my future self to digital smithereens:

I cannot imagine this thing in the actual flesh,

it's so retro-yet-fresh next-level mindblowing to me!

That R5 Renault is absolutely sick. Too bad we will never get anything with all that Bladerunner goodness. 

Even if we did get it I highly doubt that I'd be able to afford it since it'd probably be crazily priced now with the post-pandemic new normal of everything-is-too-expensive.

One of the major attributes of hot hatchdom that grabbed my heart in the first place was their trait of everyman accessibility on the financial end.

The new gen EV hatches seem to be fairly pricey, like the 500e they will be selling over here starts at like $33,000 so the Abarth would likely be a good bit more than that, and to add another attribute of hot hatchery is the fact of how they shine in the boondock twisties, so the 500e with a 150ish mile range would be a bit sketchy for ultra-rural joydriving.

Poverty-spec  has always been greatly appealing to me though, spartan interiors etc etc, and like have you seen how cheap you can get an old Suzuki Alto Works for?!?!?

I was obsessed for a minute with those things because they're high revving flyweights...

...but still don't think I'd be able to daily with a RHD car.

I'd probably go for a RS/X version, either 1st or 2nd generation.

paddygarcia said:

They don't feel light and tossable like a Miata, but they're way more fun than you might expect from the numbers.

Correct.

Yeah, after reading paddygarcia's excellent review and then your positive reinforcement, made me look again this morning and found what I'd consider to be an excellent example on AutoTrader from a private seller...

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...which if I was seriously in the market would warrant a short trip down there for a test drive because it checks all my happy boxes.

Then kept looking around and stumbled upon a site that I've never heard of...

Not an auction site but like more a classifieds, which is sorta cool, and I enjoyed browsing around there.

Always home in on R53's though and this one has one of the tiniest meth tanks I've ever seen, but it's a dedicated track car so I guess you don't really need a huge tank anyway. Is it a meth tank? Or am I seeing it wrong?

The asking price is reasonable given all the goodies that its got, although certain aspects turn me off (strut tower opening hack job etc), but I always enjoy seeing how various people modify these things since there are so many different avenues you can choose to go with what direction to take.

https://www.builtforbackroads.com/listing/2004-mini-cooper-s-track-car

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An example of aforementioned British journalism influencing my mania as at one time I would have rated the 205 as my fave Pug but this description made me change my mind to favor the 106 Rallye!

Written by Emma Woodcock as read in Modern Classics magazine of July 2018:

"From the moment you first turn the key, the 106 is shot through with the same busy energy as the 205. At anything below 4500rpm, the Rallye feels slow and uninspired. Take the hint: this is a 106 that wants to go fast.

Indulge the Rallye and it transforms around you, the shell shrinking as every surface fizzes to the engine's rough-edged song. Go past the 5400rpm peak torque point and the 106 grows frantic, the exhaust holler losing its harder edges and turning to a rasping buzz as you head towards the 7400rpm cut-off.

Short gearing keeps your left hand busy too, using all of second and most of third to hit 60mph. That's no chore: the shift itself is long but light, rewarding a delicate touch with fast, sharp changes. Measured inputs make the best of the chassis too, with ample information rippling through the seat and steering that lightens with speed to reveal espresso-strength feedback.

The 106 is quick to tell you what it wants, and what the road is doing beneath you. It's supernaturally involving, repaying straight-line braking, smooth steering inputs and enthusiastic throttle use with eager, accurate responses and a rear end that's always ready to tighten its line. Add a routine of rev-matched downshifts to keep the engine in its sweet spot and, on the right road, the 106 Rallye is completely absorbing."

As someone who has never driven or owned a 3 door hot hatch but owns 2 Miatas (different style of car, I know), what am I missing out on? Genuinely curious because I've been eyeing r53 Minis for a first time engine swap project and this thread has piqued my interest even more.

I've owned a few 3 door hatchbacks.  I guess they're more useful than a sports car, but I'd rather just own a sports car since I wouldn't be DD either of them.  I end up being the total poster child for US drivers, mostly solo in a huge SUV.  In my defense, my 90lb golden retriever is also with me and I have to pick my son up from school most days.  

When I had my 5 door Golf R, it just wasn't big enough for me, my son and the dog.  His tail was whacking my son in the face constantly in the back of the R.  I do have to admit to enjoying driving the R more, it was far quicker and handled a lot better.  Sadly, like almost all new cars, it had zero steering feel at all.

Japanspec said:

As someone who has never driven or owned a 3 door hot hatch but owns 2 Miatas (different style of car, I know), what am I missing out on?

Practicality

docwyte said:

I've owned a few 3 door hatchbacks.  I guess they're more useful than a sports car, but I'd rather just own a sports car since I wouldn't be DD either of them.  I end up being the total poster child for US drivers, mostly solo in a huge SUV.  In my defense, my 90lb golden retriever is also with me and I have to pick my son up from school most days.  

When I had my 5 door Golf R, it just wasn't big enough for me, my son and the dog.  His tail was whacking my son in the face constantly in the back of the R.  I do have to admit to enjoying driving the R more, it was far quicker and handled a lot better.  Sadly, like almost all new cars, it had zero steering feel at all.

We regularly hauled both kids and an 80lb lab around in our Chevette, then later did the same while towing  our tent trailer, 12hrs north in my 84 Rabbit. 

Your argument is invalid.

Our household currently has two MINIs, a Fiat 500, and a Scion xB. I haven't been without a small hatch since 1980. It's getting almost impossible to find nice small cars anymore and I was lucky to find a low mileage R53 MINI last month. Given that I tend to keep cars a long time, I'm probably good 'til I die now.

In reply to Peabody :

Just because you did it doesn't make it valid.  I'd rather have everyone comfortable and safe, vs cramming everyone plus the dog into a clown car.

Glad it worked for you but that doesn't make it right for everyone

docwyte said:

In reply to Peabody :

Just because you did it doesn't make it valid.  I'd rather have everyone comfortable and safe, vs cramming everyone plus the dog into a clown car.

Glad it worked for you but that doesn't make it right for everyone

This. If it's me scooting around I'm all in on the hatch (hot or not honestly) but if others are with me then not so much.

Wouldn't ya know it?

Get interested in these Pugs and then one pops up that will likely go for cheap because it's LHD and being sold in England, altho judging by the somewhat grubby engine bay the undercarriage may not look too nice either as is the curse of UK similar to rustbelt USA...

...it's an S2 version and I'd actually prefer the S1, but if cheap enough would not complain at all because I absolutely love that color and it just fits a Frenchie to be blue, eh?

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1998-peugeot-106-rallye-2

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And,

a slight side tangent:

am I the only one who laments the loss of actual keys? 

I am fob averse and do not like how the simple key has evolved to become a blipping blobby plug-in thingy.

The lack of C5 Corvette in this thread is disturbing

They also have it in multiple flavors, you prefer a more mullety version.....4th gen Fbody

Japanspec said:

As someone who has never driven or owned a 3 door hot hatch but owns 2 Miatas (different style of car, I know), what am I missing out on? Genuinely curious because I've been eyeing r53 Minis for a first time engine swap project and this thread has piqued my interest even more.

The most fun I've had in a car was in a CRX. I've owned 3 Miatas, 2 Lotuses, 3 MR2's and a Fiat X1/9. I can't vouch for all hatchbacks but Honda did something really right back then.

Might have something to do with cheap fun. Probably a bit of rose tinted glasses too...YMMV 

...speaking of Honda,

Honda S2000 masquerading as a Chevette?

Yes please!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1982-vauxhall-chevette/

In reply to Oldboy Speedwell :

Wow that looks cool! What is the upside to one of these over a 205gti? Lighter weight? More obscure? It looks to be in great shape. 

mblommel said:

In reply to Oldboy Speedwell :

Wow that looks cool! What is the upside to one of these over a 205gti? Lighter weight? More obscure? It looks to be in great shape. 

I'd reckon upside depends on personal preference and to be honest I have no idea which I'd actually prefer as I've never driven a modern French hot hatch in any form so it's all a bit fantasyland daydreaming for me.

Found this short bit from an owner on a Pug forum post from 2018 when somebody was asking 106 v. 205...

"In my experience I'd say the 106 feels a touch quicker and a little more exploitable due to cornering a little flatter.

Still prefer the 205 overall though as it feels more alive!

Only my opinion. Driven and owned lots of 205's and also owned a 106 from new. Wicked little car."

Dunno how they'd gauge on my meter but I suspect pegged, however sometimes meeting your heroes is a disappointment so who knows?

I'm waiting for the bmw e87 1 series 3 doors to hit 25 years. I love hatches, but there are so few rwd ones

Yeah, RWD is rare in hatchworld.

The most famous example of a F/R hot hatch might be the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus?

Never did we get such the phenomenal beast, altho we did get the Starlet over here for a brief time, but those are pretty scarce nowadays, not many more examples that I can think of outside the 70's Yankee-boxes like Pinto/Gremlin type stuff...

Just this morning I saw my favorite crazy M/R hatch and they always make my eyeballs pop out plus throb throb heartpounds because they look so appealingly fantastic to me...

... yet the stratospheric costs involved dampens my enthusement a bit, like I mean the seats alone cost more than my current car did! LOL

I have recently spent a lot of time with a modified Turbo1 and a low miles, all original Turbo2.

They are everything I wanted them to be. I truly love them.

The turbo 1 wins on style points. The lurid orange interior and asymmetrical steering wheel are so retro French cool. The turbo 2 is downright plain in comparison. 

We've modified the 1 with a modern BorgWarner turbocharger,  Haltech and a few other things. It is currently laying down 225 at the wheels, but will be going up another 75 soon. The stock 2 puts down 153 on the same dyno.

They are both awesome to drive. I expected them to be a handful but they really don't have any bad habits when you aren't pushing them past nine tenths. 

As a hatchback lover,  they "feel" like you want them to. The seating position,  where the controls fall to hand, where your arms fit, the pedal position. ... it just feels "right" . 

ZOMG!

Damn Trent!

THANK YOU for that review, totally mindblown here.

I am at a total loss for words but Ragnotti has been summoned as my brain tries to comprehend such an intense experiential experience...

...also,

I have a fetish for footcam videos but sadly there ain't many out there,

must include this:

Another unlikely hatchback, is the 996/997 Targa's.  Friend had a 997 Targa 4S that I thought was so cool because it had a hatchback

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1991-renault-5-gt-turbo-4

More Frenchiness.

Not stock but closer than most --- this car was afterall a darling of the Max Power crowd...