And this is why I hate mechanics...

RevRico said:

So, can I ask, how do people find a good shop?

I ended up asking around local enthusiast forums and Googled until I found a decent place. The place I ended up finding is a mom and pop place, and I explained to the owner what happened and how I ended up finding them. We had a nice chat, and I told him then and there that if they did a good job, I'd be a customer for life. So far, I haven't gone anywhere else since. I've had them mount probably 10-15 more sets of tires since the Firestone Fail. 

Here's the place for the local Eastern MA folk: https://www.kenwoodtire.com/

They are also a Tire Rack installer and don't care whether I buy the tires from them or not; they just do the work and do it right the first time. They can be a bit more expensive than I'd like to pay sometimes, but they do it right, and are still cheaper than the big, crappy competitor that's everywhere around here. They even have a "mobile tire van" that can come to you and mount your tires at your house or workplace, which is really cool. Best part: they are across the street from an AWESOME breakfast joint, so you can go over there and grab some food while you wait. Even the building is cool; it's the old town library that the original owner bought and had moved across town to save it from being torn down. 

RevRico said:

I tried to use a Firestone twice without knowing any horror stories. They were just opened, available, and had a state inspection license. 

The first trip was just an inspection, surprisingly enough they didn't bend me over the tire changer over bullE36 M3 and passed the car.

The second time I still had my Saturn with the ducked up K member, and they refused to install parts they didn't buy themselves, so I've refused to go back. 

I give everyone a fair try because finding competent workers that are actually more knowledgeable than I am (and let's face it, you've all read my threads, I'm not that berkeleying car knowledgeable) is so difficult. 

That said, I have had some really good experiences with Les Schwab when I lived on the left coast. I only picked a franchise shop because we were moving and they do warranty work at all their locations, which would save me a 3 hour tow if something they fixed broke. It might have taken them 12 hours(and $1400), but they did rebuild the front end of the Tahoe, and I didn't have any problems for the next 50k miles I owned it. 

Les Schwab is the only one I will use as well. Their tires are more expensive, but I realize that I could just buy tires from discount tire direct, have them shipped to my local America’s tire. And then pick up those tires and take them one block to the Les Schwab to have them installed correctly. I think this is called working the system

I have had really good experiences with Discount Tire.    They only do tires.

Only issue I ever had was I wanted to put Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires on my WRX and the guy kept trying to sell me some all season Yokohama's cause that's what "everyone" wants.  

  I finally told him its either the Michelins or I am going to find another tire store.  His manager was standing there and told the guy to order what I wanted.   

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to NEALSMO :

The problem, as others have mentioned, is finding trustworthy and good independent shops. Online reviews from random people are almost always extremely skewed to one extreme or the other, and being relatively new to the area with few people to ask(and they, like me, typically do their own work) makes it difficult to find anyplace worthwhile. 

I am still honked off about a bad review we got.  Person had a dead miss that had to have been there for a long time because the spark plug didn't just have a carbon track down the outside, it had burned in a deep groove.  Between that and various collateral items the bill would have been about $400.  They refused the work and picked up the car.   A couple days later we got a zero star review to the effect of, i brought ky car in and it still isn't fixed, they couldn't fix anything right.  IT'S NOT FIXED BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT US TO FIX IT.

...I did say I'm still honked off about it.  Few things piss me off more than questioning my integrity or saying i did things i did not do.

Streetwiseguy said:

RevRico said:

So, can I ask, how do people find a good shop?

Online reviews are all but useless these days thanks to being able to buy good ratings. 

Wait for something simple to break and shop the shops? Break something on purpose and see if they fix it or try to turn it into something else?

Or just keep trying different places and hoping the one you find you like is still there the next time you need it?

Just seems the handful of independent shops I've found that were any good seemed to go away to be replaced by scam factories or people that can't tell a box wrench from a crows foot. 

Talk to other people who drive stuff similar to yours.  Then when you find a decent shop, understand that they are going to charge you a fair price for the job.  A "fair price" is NOT the cheapest price.  It is the price that allows the shop to make a decent living, and have enough cash to provide you warranty without worrying whether they can make rent that month. Paying a fair price for good work allows good shops to stay in business.  Whine about the labour cost, bring your own Rock Auto bottom of the barrel parts, and that good mechanic will soon become a real good commercial refrigeration guy, and you are stuck with "scam factories and people that can't tell a box end wrench from a crows foot".

 

I agree with you to a point. I have no problems despite my joke of a monthly income paying good money for quality work. 

I have a big problem paying a 30 to 80% surcharge on parts just because they can, especially if I'm already paying over $100/hour for labor and the guy doing the work is only getting 15-20 of it. Even more so if I can get better quality parts cheaper elsewhere. And it's a much bigger problem when I have to pay someone else to fix the first persons mistakes, which has come about far more often than it should. 

As I said I've found great shops around here that don't charge an arm and a leg, do quality work, and actually take the time to show and explain what needs done and why. Sadly, those people either go out of business or get bought out, while the people charging $20 per spark plug and putting yoohoo on paper towels to look like bad differential fluid keep printing money. 

Honestly I think it has to do with this area, because it seems to affect the entire service industry. Good restaurant comes to town with reasonable prices and fantastic food? Less than a year they'll be another subway or Applebees. Finally found an independent computer store with good technicians that know what they're doing? They'll get sniped to a huge corporation and Carl the caveman will take over, who still thinks the apple Lisa is king computer. 

When I find a shop or restaurant or whatever that I do like, I spread word of mouth like wild fire, the same way I do when someone burns me. I also go out of my way to spend money there just because they treat me right, the same way I go out of my way to stop people from spending money at places that have burned me. 

You think this is bad?

My gf dropped her Hyundai Elantra off for a new transmission (55k miles) a few years back.

At the end of the job, they quoted her a bunch of senseless maintenance (timing belt, accessory belts, etc etc), but one thing stood out - they wanted to replace 2 wheel studs.

I thought this was very strange, but the guy said the car was safe to drive so I trusted it to be OK. GF drives to the gas station and snaps a pic..

"Are you sure this is OK?"

I couldn't call her fast enough to tell her to stop driving. I called the service manager and asked why they had recommended replacing the wheel studs.

"Well sometimes the threads get worn, that's why"

Me: OK, but they're not broken or anything, right?

"Oh no, no, definitely not"

Me: I'm looking at a photo of two broken wheel studs on a car that hasn't been touched other than tire rotations at your dealership. You're not going to fight us on having this towed and replacing all five studs tomorrow, are you?

Believe it or not, the guy ACTUALLY spent 5 minutes trying to tell me why he only had to replace 2 wheel studs. To save the shop $3? He finally said he'd do all five. When I took the wheels off to check the front brakes (which they also said were low - they weren't), I found two shiny new studs. Not five.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I really can't trust anybody to do anything right. I've allowed others to turn wrenches on my cars a small handful of times my whole life and it's never gone well.

In reply to RevRico :

"As I said I've found great shops around here that don't charge an arm and a leg, do quality work, and actually take the time to show and explain what needs done and why. Sadly, those people either go out of business or get bought out,"

Read this sentence out loud six times.  if you still don't understand, read it another six times.

And we wonder why the auto industry makes cheap crap. The average person probably jumps out of a rolling car loan at 55mph as soon as the odometer hits 100k... I would too if I didn’t know anything about cars. 

jharry3 said:

I have had really good experiences with Discount Tire.    They only do tires.

Only issue I ever had was I wanted to put Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires on my WRX and the guy kept trying to sell me some all season Yokohama's cause that's what "everyone" wants.  

  I finally told him its either the Michelins or I am going to find another tire store.  His manager was standing there and told the guy to order what I wanted.   

That's probably because he had the Yokes in stock. 

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to RevRico :

"As I said I've found great shops around here that don't charge an arm and a leg, do quality work, and actually take the time to show and explain what needs done and why. Sadly, those people either go out of business or get bought out,"

 

Read this sentence out loud six times.  if you still don't understand, read it another six times.

I'm not sure I get it - do you mean they're not charging enough for their level of service?

spitfirebill said:

jharry3 said:

I have had really good experiences with Discount Tire.    They only do tires.

Only issue I ever had was I wanted to put Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires on my WRX and the guy kept trying to sell me some all season Yokohama's cause that's what "everyone" wants.  

  I finally told him its either the Michelins or I am going to find another tire store.  His manager was standing there and told the guy to order what I wanted.   

That's probably because he had the Yokes in stock. 

"The special of the day is salmon."  Because it goes bad tomorrow!

A friend of mine bought a Midas shop in the next town over.  He isn't the cheapest and it's not particularly convenient to take my cars to him.  But I know when I pick up my stuff it'll be done right.

To the OPs issue, I'd have had a real hard time keeping my cool when I brought the car back to them to be properly repaired.  Oblique threats to personal safety and well being would probably be made.  "I'm sure your mechanic didn't mean to have left his work looking like this, someone could get hurt."

This whole problem is why there's a Tahoe on stands in my garage with the fuel tank on the floor. First shop Dad called wanted $740 to change the fuel pump. This was prefaced with "until we get in there, it may be more depending on what else it needs." The entire Delphi pump assembly is $156 shipped from Amazon. It took 20 minutes to get the tank onto the garage floor. Even buying one from the local dealer for $400, they're still charging $340 for an hour's labor. 

Pete Gossett said:

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to RevRico :

"As I said I've found great shops around here that don't charge an arm and a leg, do quality work, and actually take the time to show and explain what needs done and why. Sadly, those people either go out of business or get bought out,"

 

Read this sentence out loud six times.  if you still don't understand, read it another six times.

I'm not sure I get it - do you mean they're not charging enough for their level of service?

Yes.  The shop charging the pittance is now broke.  This is a berkeleying expensive business.

I find a hard time saying the words "bad mechanic", because the word "mechanic", in my mind,  carries a certain amount of intelligence, ingenuity, and ability. I've seen "technicians" screw things up, but I always consider it to be the true mechanic that digs the other guys out of holes, fixes other people's screw ups/laziness, and does right by customers.  

Streetwiseguy said:

Pete Gossett said:

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to RevRico :

"As I said I've found great shops around here that don't charge an arm and a leg, do quality work, and actually take the time to show and explain what needs done and why. Sadly, those people either go out of business or get bought out,"

 

Read this sentence out loud six times.  if you still don't understand, read it another six times.

I'm not sure I get it - do you mean they're not charging enough for their level of service?

Yes.  The shop charging the pittance is now broke.  This is a berkeleying expensive business.

I'm afraid I don't equate "not charging an arm and a leg" with a "pittance". I'm ok with $100-$125/hour shop rates for an actual shop, a slight parts markup, and of course tax. I'm not ok with the $250 Firestone charged my step son for a timing belt/tensioner/water pump that I've bought for $150 previously. After tax & shop supplies that left labor at about $150/hour - that's a little steep, but they're a 6-Bay shop on a corner lot in a decent area , I realize that doesn't come cheap. 

Oh, and two weeks ago when the Suburban broke down in BFE southern IL I was very fortunate to find an excellent shop & techs. We both understood he could have said I needed a new trans & there wouldn't have been a more cost-effective option for me to choose. Fortunately he didn't, and for $250 he was able to replace the governor, TV cable, filter & fluid - and diagnose the reason my tc clutch(and likely cruise) isn't working is due to a failed ABS module. All for $250, and he's been there 11-years. 

Obviously he doesn't have the overhead in his 3-Bay shop that Firestone who's a block from be beach & casinos does, but that's still a drastic difference between the two. 

snailmont5oh said:

I find a hard time saying the words "bad mechanic", because the word "mechanic", in my mind,  carries a certain amount of intelligence, ingenuity, and ability. I've seen "technicians" screw things up, but I always consider it to be the true mechanic that digs the other guys out of holes, fixes other people's screw ups/laziness, and does right by customers.  

WE called them parts swappers. A technician diagnoses, a mechanic fixes a parts swapper just swaps parts. Sometimes successfully. 

Here is a quick story that happened just recently to a friend of the family. She's an older women in her 70s and had just purchased a new Chrysler mini van.  Her husband passed away a few years ago but when he was alive he would only drive on Michelin tires.  Ya I know, a little crazy but it is what it is. So every new car they purchased they would immediately swap the OEM tires out for Michelins. I don't know what the OEM tires were on the van but off she drives to get Michelin tires. She went to a major tire chain, one that everyone here has heard of and gets her new Michelins.  When she gets back she comes over to show me her new tires. I ask her what she's going to do with the original tires and she tells me that she was told at the tire store that they were not allowed to give back the tires, it was their policy.  So they sold her the most expensive Michelins they had AND they kept the brand new OEM tires that came off the van. So I called up the store to speak with the manager and demand the OEM tires back and I was told they had already sold those tires to a new customer so they could not be returned. He then basically said if I don't like it to go ahead and sue him and hung up. My friend didn't want any trouble so I never pursued it. I guess the bottom line is there are a lot of crooks out there and very little we can do about it but spread the word. 

What a depressing and scary discussion. I'm so lucky to have an independent tire store that does all my work. 

Family owned, husband's an SCCA instructor. Almost always something interesting in the shop when I am there. 

I never question what they recommend, and they've never steered me wrong. 

Also- Choose two of these:  Good, Fast, Cheap.  You don't get all three.

I only work for $60/hr. I don't think it will last because im getting too busy and a little stressed. I'll have to raise prices to drive some business away unless i want to hire people..Oh nevermind, im not fast anyway so this doesn't apply to me. 

 You're cutting your own throat for some short term gains

Truly America in a nutshell.  

759NRNG said:

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to FIYAPOWA :

Awesome - thank you! I'll definitely call Rick next time I need to pass off a job to someone else.

I googled map Long Hair's and D&M auto repair popped up on Bienville blvd  this is him?  Great name  

Yep - that's him!  Yeah the name is appropriate (when you meet him, you'll get it, for obvious reasons).

In reply to Tony Sestito :

I use M&S right down the street in Bridgewater center. They did hours of diagnostics on my Hyundai and never charged me a dime. They put a Mikuni carb on my Samurai, did an exhaust manifold on my F150, work to my Yukon etc.

Great service and the owner Steve remembered me from like 4 years prior as the guy with the Samurai.

You know it is a bad sign when you look in the shop and see torque sticks on big breakover bars.

Bruce

Bob the REAL oil guy. said:

snailmont5oh said:

I find a hard time saying the words "bad mechanic", because the word "mechanic", in my mind,  carries a certain amount of intelligence, ingenuity, and ability. I've seen "technicians" screw things up, but I always consider it to be the true mechanic that digs the other guys out of holes, fixes other people's screw ups/laziness, and does right by customers.  

WE called them parts swappers. A technician diagnoses, a mechanic fixes a parts swapper just swaps parts. Sometimes successfully. 

I consider it this way; You sometimes hear of a person in the performing arts referred to as a "technician". It means that they are very precise, and deliver all required elements of a piece. When one is called an "artist", it is because the performer takes it to the next level, making the audience feel the emotion of the work. I my view is that "mechanic" could be likened to "artist", in that, yes, the technician has all the knowledge and skill to find and correct the problem correctly, but sometimes, when the situation warrants, the mechanic will come up with a truly innovative way to permanently fix a recurrent problem, or an elegant method to quickly affect a complicated repair (Step 1: remove engine. What?  No.  Just take the shock off, then you can get to the starter.)

I have a local shop I use for all the stuff I don’t want to do. 

Last time I used them was for the rear main seal in my Sierra Denali. Walked in set up an appointment and was quoted a price. Dropped car off the night before and said I was going on vacation and would pick it up Monday. I also told them that if there was anything else that needs doing while they were in there just do it as long as the total bill did not exceed $200 above there quoted price. 

I was called Friday night and told it was all set. Picked it up Monday morning and the bill was as quoted and they did the following extra

trans input and out put seals. Trans service and fluid swap. Transfer case import and out put seals and fluid swap  replaced the bushings on the shifter  oil and filter change  air filter change  

i was told I had a small valve cover leak but that it was not worth fixing.  

The final bill was $960.  I was quoted $985 for just the rear main seal  

the place is run out of a old garage  the guys there all look to be x military  the place is neat and organized but not to much so.  I have never heard swearing of any kind  try have five mechanics  that include the owner  everyone is pleasant but only the owner or one other mechanic deal with receiving or releasing vehicles and both will go over the bill line by line  all around a class act.  And I can walk there from my house  I consider my self lucky to have found them

There web site  http://www.jarmosautorepair.com/