Another example of why it pays to learn DIY car mechanicals

My wife was complaining about a shake in the front of her Forester when going over 65 mph. I took it on the highway and yep there it was. Also I had heard a whining in the rear while driving. Hoping it was somehow the tires I took it to the place I had bought it from and had them inspect it. Tires were good. both rear wheel bearings were bad and the front control arms and tie rod ends were bad. Guess how much the wanted? LOL! $2600. So I came and got the car and paid them $75 for the inspection, which was well worth the money so I didn't have to do it. Getting on Fleabay I tracked down the same quality chineseium parts they were going to install shipped to my house for a grand total of $225. I'll install them Saturday, get a $100 alignment and keep the extra $2000 in my pocket.

I appreciate shops that fix cars because not everyone likes to crawl around in the garage and use tools, but if its external to the engine I prefer to do it myself and am so glad I was taught how. About 10 years ago I was thinking of how much money I have saved over the years fixing my families vehicles, mostly because I didn't have the money to pay someone to do it. It was a lot of money, even after subtracting what I spent on tools and I never counted labor because I enjoyed doing it. What Takes them 4 hours may take me 8 or 12 but I don't have to deal with the inconvenience of taking the car there or picking up the car when its done. I know most (probably all) of you can relate. Also I'm glad to have youtube now because The Chiltons and Haynes manuals weren't always the best references to minor details. Of course I always buy whichever manual I can get my hands on as soon as I purchase a car because it always helps.

Also I hate Subarus. They try to have tech like (Lets face it industry leaders) Toyota and Honda but then give the bean counters too much power. Shoddy materials in the interior, mechanicals that wear out prematurely,  Mrs Gunner said she never wants another one after living with this one. So we only have to keep this one running another 5 to 10 years. Yay.

If you use the cheap parts prepare to do it again in a year.  And prepare for pain getting the rear bearings off.  

Wheel bearings are some of the most generally troublesome parts on Subarus, so get the highest-quality replacements you can. They seem to be an under-spec'ed design on a lot of their AWD models.

 Here I am back again. Why? Im 75% finished but it took me 12 hours last saturday to do 70% and I did an additional 5% yesterday because I had committed myself to the local comic con with my youngest. The the super bowl. Then I'm not young and my body is beat to hell from saturday. However, the rear bearings from Saturday were their own particular barrel of fun as although they did eventually make their way out with the help of a fwd hub puller, they were rusted to the inside of the hub AND the backing plate (and this doesn't even get into the fact that one hub separated from the rest of itself so I had to figure out how to attach the puller to the inside of the hub to remove the rest of it.((it worked though))). Cue 2 lb. sledge work on the hub to remove from each plate. SO after reassembling the hubs with liberal amounts of grease on the mating surfaces (in anticipation of doing the repair again next year with better quality hubs) and only flinging one parking brake spring into the ether I reassembled the rear and the only thing left is to tighten the axle nut on  both side when I get the car back on the ground. Now we move from the merely difficult into the truly asinine world of Subaru design. Instead of mating the ball joint in the control arm like most other manufacturers they mated the base into the steering knuckle. Fortunately for me that makes the bolt holding it in superfluous because of the rust that is holding it in. The solution? 2.5 hours of hammering with the above sledge hammer (BTW 5/5 stars for that hammer, thanks Harbor Freight). So getting the brands new base (of the ball joint) greased up and the inside of the knuckle all greased up assured me that I couldn't get the new piece into the knuckle under any circumstances other than the hand of God. So yesterday morning before comic con I laid under the car applying The Hand of God (My new name for the previous mentioned sledge) and it slipped right into the knuckle no problem. Again fortunately for me, the other control arm is so rusted into the knuckle no amount of persuasion has been enough to budge it. Good times. I also have the parking brake hardware kit to pick up from oriellys tonight so I can replace that one spring. So at least I have that going for me. 

Welcome to the challenge of working on rusty suspensions. I faced the challenge for over 30 years. the flat rate manuals do not give extra R&R time for rusted components that have become one with other components. Some cars are worse than others and mechanics may quote repairs reflecting their experience of previous jobs.

gunner (Forum Supporter) said:

 Here I am back again. Why? Im 75% finished but it took me 12 hours last saturday to do 70% 

You're fast approaching that $2000 you're saving by not having the shop do the work.  Sometimes it's better to just bite the bullet and get out your checkbook.

In reply to gunner (Forum Supporter) :

aaaaaand now you know why the shop wanted $2600. 

As for Subaru design......this is how I feel every time I work on Honda's. I dislike the way they do things.

I had to do the Crank Position Sensor on my  Outback; took me all of an hour but I live in the dry desert.

When I used to work at the Toyota dealership I did a lot of alignment and suspension work and I loathed cars from the rust belt.............feel your pain.

gunner (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Also I hate Subarus. ..Shoddy materials in the interior, mechanicals that wear out prematurely,  Mrs Gunner said she never wants another one after living with this one. 

hallelulah, ain't that the truth.

I learned my lesson. Will never own another one.  But unlike her, I wasn't smart. I kept buying and buying them. 

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

So out of curiosity what was so awful about them? We are on our third one and I've found them to be fine. 

My current has 132K and thus far the only non maintenance things it's need is the aforementioned Crank Position Sensor I changed on Friday night, the clutch master has started leaking and it has a ripped half shaft boot. I don't find that to be hugely different from our other cars. As for maintenance it's needed a clutch, timing belt and one brake job.

In comparison my Mazda Protege needed two coil packs, motor mounts, injectors, cat (leaky injector fried it.) timing belt and two sets of brake pads in 150K.  

In reply to Tom1200 :

The people that hate them, really really hate them, regardless of fact.

The people that love them, really, really, love them, regardless of fact.

There is no middle ground.

Appleseed said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

The people that hate them, really really hate them, regardless of fact.

The people that love them, really, really, love them, regardless of fact.

There is no middle ground.

Acually not true. I neither hate nor love them. I know there are a lot of good things about them and they had some models that make a volvo blush due to outright ruggedness. I also know they made some absolute trash at times. 

I had a similar but not similar experience a couple years back with a friend's car:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/car-dealership-overcharging-on-repair/170132/page1/

Short story shorter, the dealership quoted $1950 parts and labor for a job that cost me $130 in parts and 2.5 hours time total. Absolutely absurd. I didn't have the challenges you're having with the job, though. It was just axles on a FWD Honda. Easy peasy in and out.

Appleseed said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

The people that hate them, really really hate them, regardless of fact.

The people that love them, really, really, love them, regardless of fact.

There is no middle ground.

I "like" mine because it does the variety of things I need well. I need a soft roader than can haul small things but still handles well enough that it doesn't suck on a curvy road but is still quiet and comfortable.

The OP does have a point about their need to be different; there are some features I find annoying (like the dashpot for the clutch master to soften the engagement). 

I have $600 or so worth of tools that make the rear bearings and the ball joints go a lot easier.  

There is a special $100 puller for the ball joint to graunch it past the rust.  Use a die grinder and a burr to clean the rust out before trying to insert the new one, it'll fall right up, then.

There is a $300 tool that bolts to the hub that you hit with a 10lb sledge until it pops out of the upright.

Then you use a close tolerance finger sander (mine was $180) to remove as much rust as possible from the OD of the bearing housing, then use an oxyacetylene torch (shop supplied) to heat the backing plate, just enough to get enough heat into it that you can beat the bearing out with a sledge, or an air hammer. Sledge works better but hurts more.

dculberson said:

I had a similar but not similar experience a couple years back with a friend's car:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/car-dealership-overcharging-on-repair/170132/page1/

Short story shorter, the dealership quoted $1950 parts and labor for a job that cost me $130 in parts and 2.5 hours time total. Absolutely absurd. I didn't have the challenges you're having with the job, though. It was just axles on a FWD Honda. Easy peasy in and out.

Dealership axles are about $750 each, no?

A lot of times you can get away with Trakmotive axles, but for some applications (manual trans TSX for certain) the cheap axles shudder horribly.

iATN is full of help requests for shudder after axle install, where the posted fix was "replaced with dealer axles".

Sometimes you really do get what you pay for 

The best tool I have is my wallet and I'm not ashamed to admit it.  No, I'm not wealthy.  However, I'm crazy busy, don't have a ton of skill anyway and have zero desire to lay on the ground under a car anymore.  I don't even change my own oil anymore.  There, I said it.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dculberson said:

I had a similar but not similar experience a couple years back with a friend's car:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/car-dealership-overcharging-on-repair/170132/page1/

Short story shorter, the dealership quoted $1950 parts and labor for a job that cost me $130 in parts and 2.5 hours time total. Absolutely absurd. I didn't have the challenges you're having with the job, though. It was just axles on a FWD Honda. Easy peasy in and out.

Dealership axles are about $750 each, no?

A lot of times you can get away with Trakmotive axles, but for some applications (manual trans TSX for certain) the cheap axles shudder horribly.

iATN is full of help requests for shudder after axle install, where the posted fix was "replaced with dealer axles".

 

Sometimes you really do get what you pay for 

The $1950 was for aftermarket axles. With OEM Honda it was $2950.

Some jobs are worth paying the shop to do.  In the case of rusty suspension bits and stuck wheel bearings, I'm happy to pay them as I don't care to spend hours and hours of my time fighting that stuff.  Luckily most of the cars in Colorado don't have rust issues and everything comes apart pretty easily.

There have been a few jobs where after I was done I felt I would have been better off just paying the shop to do it.

The 2011 BMW 335i xdrive my wife has needed the oil filter housing gasket replaced. The gasket is around $10. They wanted about $1000 to do it at the dealer.

I ended up doing it, but it took me two full days. The exhaust manifold has to be moved out of the way to get to one of the bolts that holds the housing on. To get to the exhaust manifold and allow you to move it there are a series of things you have to remove from the top of the motor. You also need to drain both the coolant and the oil since both run through that housing. It's a big pain in the ass.

I should have just paid them the $1000.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

So out of curiosity what was so awful about them? We are on our third one and I've found them to be fine. 

My current has 132K and thus far the only non maintenance things it's need is the aforementioned Crank Position Sensor I changed on Friday night, the clutch master has started leaking and it has a ripped half shaft boot. I don't find that to be hugely different from our other cars. As for maintenance it's needed a clutch, timing belt and one brake job.

In comparison my Mazda Protege needed two coil packs, motor mounts, injectors, cat (leaky injector fried it.) timing belt and two sets of brake pads in 150K.  

 

 

Owned 9 since 1980, starting with a DL, GL-10, Justy, Outbacks ,WRX.  Since I don't get paid by the word, I will save you the dissertation. I have had it, and will never buy one.  

You love them - thats awesome. 

I am no mazda fanboi. Had 13 total over the years (9 miatas, 4 non miatas). My Mazda5 was the worst (bought new in 2012) kept for 9 years, was just as bad. Not buying them either. 

 I have had it with low quality 2nd and 3rd tier manufacturer. Life (mine) is too short for that kinda headaches. 

mr2s2000elise said: 

 I have had it with low quality 2nd and 3rd tier manufacturer. Life (mine) is too short for that kinda headaches. 

Actually that's a pretty good summation.  As for my loving Subis.........not really, the ones I've had just do what I need better than certain other cars.

Here's the funny thing. I still consider it my therapy (I call it garage therapy) and I actually enjoy doing the work. Kind of a hate-enjoy type of relationship. The last couple of days were 12 hour days at work so I've not touched it but I liberally sprayed the knuckle with PB Blaster Sunday so its been marinating since then. I'm growing an affinity for the smell of PB Blaster. My garage smells strongly of it right now. I got the parking brake hardware kit this morning at Oreilly's and while I was there I bought an actual hammer attachment for my air hammer, which I discovered in the bottom bin of my tool box on Sunday. I had forgotten about that. So once I get a chance to get back to it, I have no fear. I will prevail. The thing I think is the strangest is that the exterior of these components had no rust whatsoever on them. just the insides that I couldn't see. Almost as if it was preinstalled at the factory. OR the previous owner new damn well why they traded it in at 35,000 miles. berkeley it, it's getting fixed.

Count me in for the hate-enjoy camp. The worse it is, the greater the triumph over it. I think my wife has a similar relationship with running marathons 

Paying someone to work on your broken car assumes you have money to pay someone to work on your broken car.

Appleseed said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

The people that hate them, really really hate them, regardless of fact.

The people that love them, really, really, love them, regardless of fact.

There is no middle ground.

I'm not sure.  I don't hate them.  I also don't love them.  I have one currently but it is suited to its purpose in life.