Anybody @ Sebring and see the SpecMiata start?

I havn’t talked to Jeff, but seeing as Charles is from NY, I’d be willing to bet that he’s renting from Jeff to get an early start to his racing season.  The weather up north is not good racing weather right now.  And knowing that Jeff uses whatever leftover paint he has on hand to paint his rentals, and how the 46 has changed colors a few times in the last few years...

$2,000 for a weekend is probably a low estimate by me.  Tires and fuel would be approx. half of that, and the entry fee is over $300.  Throw in the employees Jeff has to pay, and it quickly adds up.

And yes, Mr. Junger would be on the hook for crash damage.  Some rental people have ‘insurance’ that limits how much you have to pay for damage.  The last time I rented from Jeff was for the 2010 VIR 13hr, and he didn’t have a contract then, it was all by handshake, so I’m not sure what his contract states these days.

Just talked to Jeff a little while ago and I would have lost that bet.  It is Jungers car.  But he does agree with me that the only incident that could be considered the 46 car’s fault is the T17 incident.

In reply to racerfink :

While we've lasered in on car 46, it really is just a symptom. While I don't race SM I think it's a great class but I also think someone somewhere needs to reign it in...................my .02 naturally. 

In reply to Tom1200 :

I did my first SM race in 2006.  I had mostly raced in IT since ‘91.  For the first few years, my 1990 Miata was quite competitive, even with the bone stock, 196k mile drive train.  It made 112.8whp.  A well built 1.6L made about 120whp.  Then the NB’s started taking over.  My last SM race was in 2010, then I switched to F Production.  I took about 100lbs out of the car, but it was still about 100lbs over minimum for FProd.  I still ran Toyo’s instead of class legal slicks, and was still running the stock motor, so I was giving up about 40-50hp to a proper FProd Miata.  I won the class championship that year, and finished 3rd out of 7 FP cars at a SCCA National event.  SM will definitely teach you about driving fast and minimizing mistakes, especially the 1.6L cars.  If you make a mistake in one of them, it takes a few corners to get it back to 100%.  The 1.8L’s, while restricted, still have plenty of torque over the 1.6L’s, and recovery is faster.  The performance envelope edge is a tightrope for the earlier cars, and it’s easy to go past that edge in them.

In reply to racerfink :

I raced a Showroom Stock C Miata in 96 & 97 as well as coaching and instructing some folks who race SM.  I've got a ton of seat time in Spec Miatas despite having never raced one.  If I ever sold my Datsun a Spec Miata would be the replacement. Naturally I would vintage race it as I switched from SCCA to vintage 10 years ago.

racerfink said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I think some driving standards need fine tuning. Here's an in-car from yesterday's afternoon race. There are four wrecks and one car was involved in three of them.......Cabin Fever 14 Feb 2021. Sebring. SAARC RACE Spec Miata Wreck Fest - YouTube

Having now had a chance to watch this video, I see one instance where the 46 missed the braking point for T17, and that’s the only incident I place solely on him.

The incident on the front straight is what happens when two cars run side-by-side really close at high speeds.  The air rushing between the two cars creates a low pressure point and sucks the cars together.  If anything, the car in the left should have given him a little more room instead of squeezing him to the wall.

The third incident, at T10 is simply the white car braking too late.  The white car even locks up before plowing into 46.

I basically agree with this assessment.  The internet lynch mob is up in arms all over the place, but incident-by-incident it isn't like he single-handedly took out the field.

Into 17...clearly he over-cooked it and created a divebomb.  He must have been right in the blind spot of the camera car the whole time, can't see the lead-up through the mirror.

Front straight...the black/red car is continually moving across track and maybe doesn't see him in his blind spot.  You can see 46 make a jog left right before contact...whether this is aero-induced or not only he can know.  He had only another foot or two of space to give.

Into 10...white car dives in and locks up.  No way to go through there 3 wide.  Looks as if 46 was leaving room at the apex but white car never got anywhere near the apex.

Any idea how many cars entered, and how many either made contact or went off-track in this event?  I just sold my track day Miata and I'm shopping for a race car, but this level of contact isn't what I want to be involved with.

In reply to MattGent :

Matt, not every SM race is like this; It varies from region to region and dependent on whether you are doing Majors or Regional events. If you just want to do local / regional events SM could be a perfect fit.  Further some of the vintage groups in your area accept SMs and the vintage groups have zero tolerance on contact. You can also run a Miata in ITA, STU or STL at SCCA events. 

Anytime you are considering a race car it's always good to go to a couple of events and see what's what.

Following a Spec Miata around a track is a great way to learn lines, because they all have to be super-efficient and you can hear absolutely everything they do with the throttle :) 

I am not a wheel-to-wheel racer, so maybe with fine analysis #46 is not at fault in all these crashes. I'll take people's word for it. But you know the rule - if everyone else in the room is an shiny happy person, maybe the shiny happy person is you. The common thread in those three impacts is him.

But even if he's not at fault 66% of the time cars go careening off the track with freshly transferred orange paint, this sort of highlight reel only reinforces why I wouldn't race in this series. It'll teach you a lot about car setup and momentum driving, but you can't rely on those around you not to simply punt you. And now you've wasted all the money you spent to get to the race and you have a busted up car to fix. Not for me, thanks.

One of the things that makes SM great is also what can unfortunately turn it into a crashfest. 

That is the cost of entry and operational cost. The lower the financial barrier to get into a form of motorsport, then the greater the potential skill set of the drivers and competition that you'll be facing within the series. As you'll be facing the best drivers who make $70,000 a year or more annually instead of the best drivers who make $200,000 a year or more annually. You have a larger population field of potential competitors, and thus a greater potential to face excellent drivers. If you want to face a bunch of 50+ year old men who make 7 figures, go race GT3 911s, most of them will have a decade plus of track experience and have stellar race craft but don't have the heightened senses and reaction times that they did 20 years ago. They drive differently, It's not quite methodical, but it's more precision planning than read and react. It's also rare to have a class with more than 12 cars in it. In SM in a 40+ car field, you have to be prepared for anything and everything and you may be racing off line as much as you are on line. It's not the theater to play in if you're racing via muscle memory. With regards to driver talent the cream rises. 

Unfortunately that low barrier with regards to cost of entry also means that in some instances and for some drivers, binning a car is something that they don't care too much about, as they can have another (and not even a re-tub) by next weekend. 

That is the series blessing, it is the series curse and it will be until NA prices continue to climb until it's no longer the case. The sad thing is, that once that happens, the operational cost of a track miata will also likely begin to escalate which is honestly be somewhat devastating to the sport as a whole as the barrier to having a consistent reliable platform to get seat time in on track, wheel to wheel not required, will be lost. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said

That is the series blessing, it is the series curse and it will be until NA prices continue to climb until it's no longer the case. The sad thing is, that once that happens, the operational cost of a track miata will also likely begin to escalate which is honestly be somewhat devastating to the sport as a whole as the barrier to having a consistent reliable platform to get seat time in on track, wheel to wheel not required, will be lost. 

Well said sir; this is why I really wish the class would be less elbows out. It is a fantastic class.

I know in motorsports all things are relative as it pertains to cost, but I think the idea of SM being a low-cost class has been dead for years, at least at the fast end of the pack.  It's commonplace to spend $7-8k on a motor alone, and the really turnkey competitive builds are $40-50k.  My SM is an early 1.6L car and it's as "grassroots" as they get.  My first official race with it is next weekend and I have no expectations of being competitive, and I bet I still have $12k invested in the car.  It really doesn't matter what my income is, I'll be pissed if I end up binning it because some cowboy can't abide by the rules stated in the GCR.  I'm obligated to do three SCCA races to get my full competition license; after that I will probably re-assess and may end up doing vintage racing instead.

In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :

Do note that guys vintage racing are spending 7-10K on engines in many cases as well, granted they are more heavily modified than you basic SM engine.  I love both SM & vintage racing, so a SM in vintage would likely be my ideal situation if I were starting from scratch.