Signed up yesterday. First time my schedule lined up with a local event.
Bringing my Z3 M coupe.
Anyone else going to be there?
Signed up yesterday. First time my schedule lined up with a local event.
Bringing my Z3 M coupe.
Anyone else going to be there?
No but I want to go to one of these down in Atlanta so I'd love to hear about your experience tonight.
Just a quick recap.
I've done a ton of track time over the years, mostly w2w, but this was my first TNIA, and it was a good low key track day, about 50-60 cars entered total. 3 run groups, 3 sessions each., Novice, Intermediate, Advanced.
Biggest group was novice. Novice drivers did pace laps before their first session, and a debrief after each session.
No major incidents - a couple of spins, a small grass fire had to be put out from a car that spun in the grass.
Pretty wide range of cars: miata's, frisbee twins, 350+370z's, some swapped honda's, a couple of GTI's. various bmw's, a few 911's, and a few corvettes and mustangs.
I ran in the intermediate group because I was in a street car that I very much did not want to wad up, so preferred the passing only on straights (with point by) of the intermediate group vs pass anywhere (with point by) of advanced group.
Overall would recommend. A good, easy track day, only negative was the usual CMP thing of the soil content being approximately 50% fire ants by weight.
Ugh... Fireants. How do they have so many?! I'm on my way there today, hope I can find a safe place to set up the tent.
sevenracer said:Just a quick recap.
I've done a ton of track time over the years, mostly w2w, but this was my first TNIA, and it was a good low key track day, about 50-60 cars entered total. 3 run groups, 3 sessions each., Novice, Intermediate, Advanced.
Biggest group was novice. Novice drivers did pace laps before their first session, and a debrief after each session.
No major incidents - a couple of spins, a small grass fire had to be put out from a car that spun in the grass.
Pretty wide range of cars: miata's, frisbee twins, 350+370z's, some swapped honda's, a couple of GTI's. various bmw's, a few 911's, and a few corvettes and mustangs.
I ran in the intermediate group because I was in a street car that I very much did not want to wad up, so preferred the passing only on straights (with point by) of the intermediate group vs pass anywhere (with point by) of advanced group.
Overall would recommend. A good, easy track day, only negative was the usual CMP thing of the soil content being approximately 50% fire ants by weight.
I’m considering my first TNIA but wonder if it’s going to be as satisfying as wheel to wheel.
Many decades of wheel to wheel but simply cannot afford the entry fees and costs of SCCA or Vintage groups anymore.
At least in wheel to wheel there tends to be one or a few people to have a dice with. Is that likely in TNIA?
buzzboy said:Ugh... Fireants. How do they have so many?! I'm on my way there today, hope I can find a safe place to set up the tent.
I've noticed there seem to be fewer fire ants at LeMons events. Possibly due to the larger-than-normal quantity of various automotive fluids Exxon Valdez'ed all over the paddock.
frenchyd said:I’m considering my first TNIA but wonder if it’s going to be as satisfying as wheel to wheel.
Many decades of wheel to wheel but simply cannot afford the entry fees and costs of SCCA or Vintage groups anymore.
At least in wheel to wheel there tends to be one or a few people to have a dice with. Is that likely in TNIA?
I love TNiA events, but they really are a low-key kinda track time. If you can find someone to pair up with you can have a lot of fun, but it is primarily geared towards cheap and relaxed track time. And with only 3 sessions in the half day, it makes it hard to really see a variety of your group to figure out if there's someone running near your times.
I would recommend that you look into the new SCCA Time Trials National program if any are going on around you. I just did one a few months ago @ Thompson. You're running transponders, so after your first session you're gridded in order of lap times, the guy ahead of you use should be slightly faster and the guy behind you should be slightly slower. It really gives you a good (and fun) session when you're sent out with guys in your range.
In reply to frenchyd :
I'm doing my first one tomorrow at DCTC.. you should come.
In reply to WonkoTheSane :
It’s not wheel to wheel?
I’m sorry, I’ve run two autocross events in decades of racing. While I’m gratified I won my class against the famed Sir Sterling Moss driving the factory Aston Martin DBR2 I found without the wheel to wheel stimulation simply not my preference.
Fueled by Caffeine said:In reply to frenchyd :
I'm doing my first one tomorrow at DCTC.. you should come.
I would attend except I’m scheduled already for that evening. I wish I could. Do PM me and keep me informed. Not just how you do but length of the track, what sort of cars attend. ( a fellow Jag racer May be there with his Very nice XJS).
In reply to frenchyd :
Happy to do that.. or over a cup of coffee.. I live in south west metro. I htink you are on minnetonka and closeish to me..
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Sure just as long as you’ll allow me to buy tea. I’ve drank perhaps 2 cups of coffee( more accurate, cream and sugar with coffee flavoring).
If you're in the atlanta area, JZilla is another really cool group to look at. Low cost, good instructors (I am one), great attitude overall (no red mist).
Has CMP been repaved yet? How's the track? I've done a couple track days there but it's in the shiny happy person of south carolina, fire ants everywhere, and the asphalt was more sandpaper than anything last time I was there (kills tires).
frenchyd said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
It’s not wheel to wheel?
I’m sorry, I’ve run two autocross events in decades of racing. While I’m gratified I won my class against the famed Sir Sterling Moss driving the factory Aston Martin DBR2 I found without the wheel to wheel stimulation simply not my preference.
TNiA is not W2W.. It's just a track day. A half-track day, actually, that starts around 2 or 3 in the afternoon until 7. Normal track day style Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced groups, 3 20 minute sessions. That's what I was saying, is that it's a particularly (intentionally) laid-back type of track day. Lots of street hardware, not trailered-in race cars or anything. Honestly, it's my favorite way to spend an evening.. Get out of work a bit early, roll in, hit some laps and go home.. I don't really prep the car the way I do for a full track day. No ez-ups, etc. Just a gear bag and some drinks. We're lucky that the two nearby venues have great conessions, so I don't even pack food :)
If you want some competition without the risk & cost of W2W, that's where I was having a lot of fun on the SCCA National Time Trial, where you're "in competition" but gridded in time order, so you really get a sense of accomplishment when the next person ahead of you have gives you the point by, or your grid order moves up 3 or 4 places the next time. But it's still track-day style rules, point bys, politeness, etc.
In reply to WonkoTheSane :
In Vintage racing , wheel to wheel you don't dice with anyone until you are comfortable together . The penalty for body contact is too severe.
You may damage a mega dollar car. Or even somebodies pride and joy that represents a massive amount of work. Aside from that there is the 13- 13 penalty. 13 months of being listed and any contact with anyone brings a 13 month ban. You could potentially miss 2 years of racing at the event contact occurred and it doesn’t have to be your fault!
But diving inside of your buddy in an out braking move or setting up a pass several corners ahead of the actual pass is extremely satisfying. Especially when you know what he’s going to do and he set’s you up perfectly to do it.
That’s real Gentleman racing.
Picking up a tenth of a second here or there while certainly demanding of skill isn’t as friendly. It would bother me if someone failed to wave me by either because he’s too focused and not aware of things around or because he’s unwilling to give up the position.
Once you have a partner(s) if you run up on that sort you simply pull into the pit and wait until he’s clear before you resume dicing.
Once racing MGT series cars we had a group of 12 . The slowest car found the power of the draft( at 75mph ) and worked his way from last to first. You should have seen the party of hat night!!
Frenchy: I think it's been answered already, but TNiA isn't really a great event for dicing with others - the rule is point by's are required, and I don't think the intent is to have people running really close together risking metal to metal contact.
For me, in W2W, I'm not used to doing point by's and find it a bit distracting, but I wasn't trying to win the track day either, so no biggie.
I really just wanted to see how the M Coupe did on track (really good actually, great turn in and easy to throttle steer), plus I put some Varex mufflers on and wanted to test those out (sounds glorious from 4k to redline). It is nice to just drive from work with a small tool box and a plastic tote vs packing the truck and trailer full of tools and spares, clothes, food, and mattress and sleeping bag, etc, etc. for a race weekend.
I grew up following the British model of racing. Race hard and a wave of thanks as you pass, for driving clean and fair.
Heck I saw the same conduct on the dirt track at the fairgrounds. Foyt and others would push hard and not give an inch but once past acknowledge the pass with a nod of the head or little wave.
Things were different in those days. Race drivers were killed on a Regular basis. So while it was your livelihood, it was also your life.
In reply to WonkoTheSane :
I keep seeing mixed information on this. You DO or DO NOT need a competition license?
In reply to sevenracer :
TNIA is a fine place for dicing with others, it's slightly different in HPDE then w2w of course, but if you find a willing partner running similiar laptimes it's very fun - I do it all the time (even in point by only groups)
In reply to frenchyd :
LeMons racing I find to be similar to what you've described. Some drivers do point bys. I tend to not to, as I'm generally absorbed in what my own car is (or is not) doing, but people race hard but acknowledge faster cars.
The teams we've talked to post-racing have generally not had a problem with us. The few that have, also generally spend more time in the penalty box, too. So take that with a grain of salt.
Patientzero said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
I keep seeing mixed information on this. You DO or DO NOT need a competition license?
For TNIA? You do not. They have a novice group so you don't even need track experience.
In reply to accordionfolder :
SCCA Time Trials
Patientzero said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
I keep seeing mixed information on this. You DO or DO NOT need a competition license?
You do:
Time Trials Novice License Eligibility Requirements:
red_stapler said:Patientzero said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
I keep seeing mixed information on this. You DO or DO NOT need a competition license?
You do:
Time Trials Novice License Eligibility Requirements:
- Weekend or Full Membership of the SCCA.
- Valid government-issued driver’s license.
Hmm? Neither of those are a competition license. You don't need any comp license, I've been to one before (I had an NASA TT license, but they never checked), not much more than a transponder required track day. There were a bunch of autocrossers at the one I went to. I guess it's a rubber stamp comp license if that's what you mean.
accordionfolder said:red_stapler said:Patientzero said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
I keep seeing mixed information on this. You DO or DO NOT need a competition license?
You do:
Time Trials Novice License Eligibility Requirements:
- Weekend or Full Membership of the SCCA.
- Valid government-issued driver’s license.
Hmm? Neither of those are a competition license. You don't need any comp license, I've been to one before (I had an NASA TT license, but they never checked), not much more than a transponder required track day. There were a bunch of autocrossers at the one I went to. I guess it's a rubber stamp comp license if that's what you mean.
You do NOT need a competition license. I'm already an SCCA member, so my only additional charge for the weekend was the transponder rental ($20?). If you are not an active SCCA member, you'll need a weekend membership which, IIRC, is $15.
A transponder-required track day is a great way to describe it, with the only real difference being the grid order (which I thought was really fun), and the "Track sprint" part which is a standing start, autocross-style thing with timing lights where you go from a dead stop at the end of the main straight to the beginning of the straight for a single lap time. Again, it was good fun, and a good way to mix it up the second morning.
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