AR5 to LSx

In reply to Daylan C :

You would do better to find a Chevy T5, at least that way it's mostly a bolt-in setup if you can find the OEM manual trans bits.  It would probably be okay, or at least better than an AR5.  The ratios would be better suited at least.

Of course the 4L60 is the easy button since 99% of the 3rd-gens had 700R4s;  What fun is the easy way?

Because I want the car driveable asap,I might just do what I hate doing and do the 4l60e now and come back and do the t56 later. Much later, like possibly never if I'm honest.

Just my .02. I have seen the AR5 and the MA5 live through some rough beatings. There are literally thousands of them in junk yards. $100 at a P&P. They are as strong as an R154 but have betters syncros and shorter 1st and 2nd gears. The problem with the CDxxx trans is that it is really long and you have to chop the bell housing off to adapt it to just about anything. The BMW trans is an option but a little more expensive. On a GRM type budget this trans is perfect. Plus, they’ve all been behind low power 4 cylinder engines so none of them are really beat.

I scored one for $75 for my Volvo challenge car so we will see just how well it holds up

In reply to ErikTheSwede :

I'm not sure I see that stupid short 1st gear as a plus for my setup. That's actually the biggest issue I have with it. 

In reply to Daylan C :

This can be an issue. It can also be a good thing because the short 1 and 2 give one the ability to run a taller final drive ratio and still have decent cruising speed and fuel mileage. I'm setting one up for my challenge car simply because I got it cheap and there are piles of them in the junk yards.

In reply to ErikTheSwede :

But wide ratios suck if you want to drive the car unless you're putting around at idle all the time.  And if you have a large engine, there is a serious law of diminishing returns because the first gear acceleration rate asymptotically reaches its free-rev rate - the engine is spending a larger percentage of its power accelerating itself and not the car.  Back when 5.0s were new and people used to drag race them stock, people found that short-shifting the 1-2 shift made for better times for this reason, and this was with tall gears!

Also, they make the transmission weaker.  Miata transmissions are stronger than RX-7 transmissions in part because Miatas have a 3.1 first gear while RX-7s have a 3.6.

In reply to Knurled. :

Miata transmissions may be stronger than RX-7 boxes but I'm a little suspect that it has much to do with the ratios. You mentioned wider ratios make transmissions weaker, but you quoted a wider ratio (3.1) on the Miata and a shorter ratio for the RX-7 (3.6). Wouldn't that mean the RX-7 should be stronger by your logic?

I'm honestly curious about this because I've never seen gear ratios directly correlated to the strength of a transmission.

Larger spacing in gear ratios putting more stress on parts on up shifts under power? I was discussing this with somebody else last night and the first thing they said when I mentioned the large gap between 1st and 2nd with an LS they immediately said "sounds like a good way to break 2nd gear".

MTechnically said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Miata transmissions may be stronger than RX-7 boxes but I'm a little suspect that it has much to do with the ratios. You mentioned wider ratios make transmissions weaker, but you quoted a wider ratio (3.1) on the Miata and a shorter ratio for the RX-7 (3.6). Wouldn't that mean the RX-7 should be stronger by your logic?

I'm honestly curious about this because I've never seen gear ratios directly correlated to the strength of a transmission.

I think you havbe your terminology confused.  "Shorter" means a lower gear/higher number ratio, while "closer" has to do with the RPM drops between gears.  The Miata has a taller ratio 1st gear which also means it has closer ratio gears.

The Borg-Warner T5 has a 300ft-lb torque rating for the 3.15/2.95 1st-gear ratio transmissions, but a 190 ft-lb torque rating for the 4.0 1st-gear ratio transmissions used behind four-cylinder engines.  The bearings, cases, and shaft diameters are the same, the torque rating is 100% due to the first gear ratio.  (And, coincidentally, the transfer gear ratio)

Daylan C said:

Larger spacing in gear ratios putting more stress on parts on up shifts under power? I was discussing this with somebody else last night and the first thing they said when I mentioned the large gap between 1st and 2nd with an LS they immediately said "sounds like a good way to break 2nd gear".

You can break a T56 with a Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine with a strong enough clutch and a heavy enough flywheel.

Wide gear spacing puts more stress not only on the synchronizers having to manage a larger RPM change, but it increases the shock loads if you slam through the gears.

Direct result of a 4-5 powershift at 85mph in teh RX-7.    Ripped the teeth of the transfer gears right off....

Yeah I've officially been talked out of the AR5.

According to internet lore, T-5s will either take 500hp/500tq launches on drag radials or turn into saw dust on a easy 2-3 shift. The NV3500 is considered weak but used by JGR in the full weight and supercharged Silverado. The same with Getrags and ZF boxes used in BMWs. Both have 4.xx 1st gears and beaten to death by drifters, forced induction engines, big blocks, and other assortment of automotive hoonery.

There will always be a subset of people that will break anything . . . anvils included. No transmission will survive the abuse of powershifting, sidestepping the clutch, hamfisted shifting, etc. The picture Knurled posted proves that. If you understand the limitations and try not to surpass them, it should be fine.

For the price, I think the AR5 swap is another excellent path to putting a manual behind LSx without shelling out $1k + on a suspect T56.

Strike_Zero said:

According to internet lore, T-5s will either take 500hp/500tq launches on drag radials or turn into saw dust on a easy 2-3 shift.

It's both.  "Third gearing" a T5 was common when people ran them stock, the end of the main shaft is rather poorly supported and things go akilter with ease.

Knurled. said:

I have a T5 gear set that looks identical. It lived thru several years of a 2.3T pushing 340tq thru a 4cyl box. I am sure it was on its way out anyhow, but a good hard 1-2 shift at the dragstrip that wheelhopped 2nd gear finished it off. It still drove home 

That motor has a 2.95 T5z behind it now

Some of you guys think way too much. This is a cheap way to get a decent 5 speed for a cheap price behind a cheap v8. A successful day at the Pick n Pull could net a loaded up 5.3 for a few hundred bucks and a 5 speed trans for a couple of hundred. Buy this adapter and parts for $450 and a used LS1 flywheel and an eBay clutch and you have a solid V8 swap with a manual trans for under $2000

In reply to ErikTheSwede :

What about the driveshaft?  That's a $500 piece locally.

The advantage of the T5 is that there is already a plug and play option.

I'm going with a Colorado AR5 behind a 4.8L v8 in my Amigo, and I am confident it will be just fine. 

Most of the manual transmission failures we see here are from shock overload, usually due to an overly aggressive clutch. My ClutchTamer product address that problem directly, but it's pretty easy to diy a similar solution once you understand how my solution works. Here's a link to a page that describes what it is and what it does... clutchtamer.com

In a nutshell, excess clutch torque capacity is a bad thing unless you have a way to control it's hit. Sure you could over build parts and install heavier transmissions than you really need to handle the extra abuse, but those heavier parts will also slow you down.

Grant

Knurled. said:

In reply to ErikTheSwede :

What about the driveshaft?  That's a $500 piece locally.

 

The advantage of the T5 is that there is already a plug and play option.

You have an expensive local driveshaft shop. Driveshafts are actually pretty easy to make just not balance. I have a local guy that will make me a steel driveshaft for $150

In reply to ErikTheSwede :

For "import" driveshafts?  That's the kicker.... anything "import" is like $500, "domestic" is around $200.

This is why I went to such great lengths to get a flange on my Ford 9", and get it short enough, so that I could use a stock RX-7 driveshaft.

ErikTheSwede said:

Just my .02. I have seen the AR5 and the MA5 live through some rough beatings. There are literally thousands of them in junk yards. $100 at a P&P. They are as strong as an R154 but have betters syncros and shorter 1st and 2nd gears. The problem with the CDxxx trans is that it is really long and you have to chop the bell housing off to adapt it to just about anything. The BMW trans is an option but a little more expensive. On a GRM type budget this trans is perfect. Plus, they’ve all been behind low power 4 cylinder engines so none of them are really beat.

I scored one for $75 for my Volvo challenge car so we will see just how well it holds up

I'm bringing this back from the dead. I've got a Volvo 245 sitting in my driveway and I'm thinking about using this for a cheap 4.8/5.3 swap. Did you end up putting this in your challenge car yet? I'm curious how it lines up dimension-wise - like where the shifter ends up. There isn't a ton of info out there but it looks like you might be able to use shifter housings from R154 applications or the Solstice to get it longer.

Really, I just want an old school Volvo with V8 noises to zoom around town. I think this would work! Anybody else go down this path yet?

In reply to CalypsoE30 :

i haven’t done anything with it yet. I’m just gonna do some cutting and welding to make it fit if I need too. I honestly think that if you stuff the engine far enough back in the engine bay it won’t need to be modified

Now I'm really bringing this from the Dead!

We have a 15 Tacoma Access cab 4x2 that I installed an POS Rotrex supercharger system in. Why is it a POS. The shaft from the pulley to the turbine wheel snaps like pretzels. Their reliability flat Sucks! So because I don't have the proper tools or skills. I've been talking to a shop about doing an LS swap. I would like an aluminum block 5.3 fix the small issues and give it a little cam. The owner wants me to go with an LS1 & 6 spd. Tremec that will be geared WAY to tall. I really like to stick with a wide ratio 5 spd. Our Tacoma has an R155 it's the same as an R154 with a lower first & second gears. Maybe someday start going back to the dunes for short trips I.e. like a little towing ability.  I've installed StopTech's and coilover's with to much spring rate & other BS. I will be 62 so my drag racing days are long gone.

So looking for trans recommendations and absolutely no automatics! (Sorry but I'm having one hell of a time trying to type this out. Something with the Internet or this website IDK.)

 I really like to keep the stock transmission because the shifter is where it needs to be and I don't want to massage the trans tunnel either. The rear gear is an 3.73 and the RPMs are 2400 @ 65 using GPS. I have an 3.58 and 3.31 3rd members setting in 5 gallon buckets if I would need them. If I did a 6 spd. Tremec I would need 4.10 or lower gear. TKX would be nice but they are more than a refreshed alloy 5.3! Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

Hayrider, 

Do the ar5 swap it is likely to be good for what you are doing but even if you end up hating it, it uses the same clutch, flywheel, hydraulics, etc. As a t56 so if need be sell the adapter and buy a t56.  But I think you'd be happy with the ar5 or other R series trans.

I bought one to swap the ls into my hilux because r series is direct fit and 4wd. We'll see how it likes turbo ls power someday. I'll post results on here.