seriously. 

300whp 218 wtq all naturally aspirated. 

video link for if it doesn't embed right..

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3673553245993385&id=177350395613705

I kind of like the wail of those things.

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

Are K miatas the Ultimate Naturally Aspirated miata?

Well, I mean there are LS Miatas.

But thats pretty berkeleying awesome.

In reply to ProDarwin :

As an LS guy(that's admittedly not very good at LSs) who owns a Miata. I think I'd rather have the K. 

What about those 1.6L with the Honda heads ?

so a K 24 fully dressed is like 275-300lbs 

Miata NA/NB tr​​​​ans 75lbs ish

BMW ZF trans 86lbs if you do that swap

LS3 is 415ish lbs

T56 is 115lbs

the LS miata certainly has the better power to weight... 

but to me the NA K miata takes that Miata flavor and turns the knob to 11 and beyond.... 

I have my bias and afinity for the Honda K series... so I'll never be impartial in this discussion. 

Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

As an LS guy(that's admittedly not very good at LSs) who owns a Miata. I think I'd rather have the K. 

Yeah, torque is scary :)

I've had a high compression 2.0 Miata, turbo Miatas, LS Miatas. It's fun revving the nuts off a spinny engine to get power and they make a great noise - but I have to say, that big punch in the back from a big engine is pretty damn addictive. If I'm going to have a wailer, I want it in a car that weighs half of what a Miata does.

A K series in a Miata should still be easy to work on and not a hatefully tight fit either. I was looking into Mazda KL swapping one of the BG chassis cars recently, and it's tempting as 8,000 rpm and 200 NA horsepower in a package that's lighter than a BP would be fun, but they really cramp the engine bay to make future work infinitely less fun. The Honda K does all of that while remaining a relatively compact inline 4. With care and feeding and bulletproofness that compares to, well, a BP. 

Choice is good! 

If you want a feel of what they're all like to drive, Sam Smith drove way too many Miatas at Laguna Seca a few years back. Including a K and a couple of LS and a 2.5 and an Exocet and big turbos and little turbos and not turbos and Spec and everything. It's a fantastic read. Sam's a friend of mine, and when he asked me if I could set up a few drives for him, I asked how many. "As many as possible," he said. Heh heh heh. And at least one of these cars belongs to one of our own.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a32131/miatas-at-mazda-raceway-miatagasm-mega-test/ 

Keith Tanner said:

I want it in a car that weighs half of what a Miata does.

My issue with that is what do you give up to get to a car that light? 

You will of course lose a lot of civility to get that light... And the LSND is really the ultimate answer for a great street car and toy combo because it's so light even with the LS3 stuffed into it. 

You give up everything that is not 100% necessary to be a car :) My Locost was 1200 lbs and had (has) an operatic engine that was sheer joy to wind out. It was not civil. It was just pure driving. 

When FM started working from home, I grabbed the keys to the V8 ND. I mean, someone has to exercise it, right? I wonder if anyone's hooked my poor little street Miata to a battery charger?

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm not surprised that you had a hand in that article. I've been reading performance car articles since the 60s, and that one stands out. Great work!

It's one of the factors in convincing me to finally buy my first Miata not long after reading it.

Keith Tanner said:

Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

As an LS guy(that's admittedly not very good at LSs) who owns a Miata. I think I'd rather have the K. 

Yeah, torque is scary :)

I've had a high compression 2.0 Miata, turbo Miatas, LS Miatas. It's fun revving the nuts off a spinny engine to get power

Let's call it 350hp, at only 8700 from a four, is not "revving the nuts off of a spinny engine".  That's a crank yanker, but without all the rotating inertia of a V8.

Normally to touch 300 with a four you would be turning well over 10,000.

I really want to drive a mildly built K24 Miata street car. I believe Keith when he extols the virtues of the V8 cars. I've been in the V8 ND and I get it. At the same time I do enjoy stock engined NA/NB cars and wonder if they would be better turned up to 10.5 instead of 13 like the V8 cars. K Miatas are a really neat setup, especialy now that you can use the stock crossmember. 

LOL @ "ultimate" and "218 torquesssss"

we have different definitions of the word ultimate.  I'm more inclined to say FM LS3 cars are.  
 

HP is for bragging rights, torque is what makes your passenger E36 M3 their pants

I'm assuming OP meant Ultimate NA 4 cylinder Miata. I'm sure y'all knew that, but just wanted to be pedantic.  

z31maniac said:

I'm assuming OP meant Ultimate NA 4 cylinder Miata. I'm sure y'all knew that, but just wanted to be pedantic.  

I do think a K miata is the ultimate 4 cyl.  And that car is super impressive.  But yes, I like to be pedantic.  This is the internet after all.

Since we're being pedantic, I'm pretty sure this is the ultimate naturally aspirated Miata...

Of course, now it's supercharged... 

I do think a K Miata may be the ultimate street/HPDE Miata, assuming you're not building to the rules of a particular class.

Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

LOL @ "ultimate" and "218 torquesssss"

we have different definitions of the word ultimate.  I'm more inclined to say FM LS3 cars are.  
 

HP is for bragging rights, torque is what makes your passenger E36 M3 their pants

I had to take a Subaru drivin" friend of mine to a gas station 2 exits away from the rallycross venue so he could get some cash, so he could buy trackside E85 for his antilag-equipped all the boosted WRX, so he knew from torque.  (Instant full boost when you exit a corner at 2500rpm or so is, indeed, nuts)  Being in my car, I gave the onramp a full 2nd gear rip from about 3000 up to 10.  His brain couldn't figure it out so he just started laughing.  He told me he kept thinking I was going to upshift, but the engine just kept pulling without tapering off...

And this was a lot lower power than that K.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Keith Tanner said:

Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

As an LS guy(that's admittedly not very good at LSs) who owns a Miata. I think I'd rather have the K. 

Yeah, torque is scary :)

I've had a high compression 2.0 Miata, turbo Miatas, LS Miatas. It's fun revving the nuts off a spinny engine to get power

 

Let's call it 350hp, at only 8700 from a four, is not "revving the nuts off of a spinny engine".  That's a crank yanker, but without all the rotating inertia of a V8.

 

Normally to touch 300 with a four you would be turning well over 10,000.

"Only 8700". Sorry, that's spinny. These are car engines, not bike engines. There are very few car engines that rev that high. A few (but only a few) Hondas and maybe a Ferrari. I don't care what the actual power level is, if you have to go over 8500 to get there it's not a crank yanker. I am assuming a crank yanker is a high torque, low rpm engine.

The move to a stock crossmember in the newest K swaps is a big one. That was a weak point in the earlier swaps. Now if they can just find a way to make a K look like something other than a toolbox that got left in the engine bay :)

Keith Tanner said:

Now if they can just find a way to make a K look like something other than a toolbox that got left in the engine bay :)

We will have to agree to disagree, I am of the assumption that any built engine swap deal is going to be for motorsports.  On the street, I like a fat lazy engine with boost, but that is because driving on the street is a casual affair, performance-wise.    That said I spent time in an AP2 yesterday and I could get into a lot of trouble even if I kept the revs below 3000.

And that is a similar powerband but a lot less power.

But on one subject I can agree 100%, and that is that dang valve cover.

Not really related to this thread, but thanks for sharing that article. It was a good read, and captured the Miata magic pretty well.

Mine has been sitting in the garage more lately because the poly bushings squeak, the springs that 949 recommended are too stiff, the muffler rattles and there's another squeak of some sort coming from the hood. But it's still a 250whp riot to drive on the track. 

Keith Tanner said:

"Only 8700". Sorry, that's spinny. These are car engines, not bike engines. There are very few car engines that rev that high. A few (but only a few) Hondas and maybe a Ferrari.

This list has 3 Hondas, a Ferrari, a Toyota, a rotary (kind of cheating), an Aerial Atom (that's really a race engine) and an Audi of all things.  https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a77b4v9/ 

That said, comparing a built aftermarket engine to OEM ones isn't really apples to apples, either.  Stock K motors are mostly limited to 500 rpm less than that.

As for the best NA motors, right now I'm kind of in love with my S54 but I think that would be hard to fit in a Miata. :)

My point was that an engine that spins higher than all but five production car engines could be considered a high revving engine :) Doesn't really matter if it's built or whatever, it's a spinny engine when compared to everything else.

Straight sixes have been done in a Miata. C'mon, jam that S54 in there!

I want my wife to start working again, someone to buy either my Boxster or 944, so I can explore other naturally aspirated options for my Miata......