In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
My eyes just rolled back into my head.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
My eyes just rolled back into my head.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Daylan C (Forum Supporter) :
All I see is time left on the table by the complete lack of left foot braking in a setup that's designed to take advantage of left foot braking.
You're definitely not wrong...
ProDarwin said:In reply to Appleseed :
Seems like a slight exaggeration, but yes they stop fast. Once. I used to work where that track is made. The rubber part shears off during the first hard stop.
My impression is that the rubber tracks are just for peacetime exercises/training in order not to tear up the streets and during war they run on steel?
Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Daylan C (Forum Supporter) :
All I see is time left on the table by the complete lack of left foot braking in a setup that's designed to take advantage of left foot braking.
There's no turbo. No need for left foot braking.
What I SEE is time left on the table because of slow Miata steering. The driver is overcautious to keep steering inputs low because it would take a lot of hand motion to correct a slide.
What I HEAR is absolutely glorious, and could be better with a closer transmission. Falls off VTEC a lot.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
the VTEC tuning also matters, without a tune my civic falls out of Vtec a bunch in autox..
with a tune you are basically never out of VTEC.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
I think the left foot braking comment was related to the tank discussion and video. Took me a bit to figure out what they were talking about.
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
I would think that a swap would have a tune, but yes, it does seem odd that it only comes alive over 7000. VTEC should be engaging way before that, I'd think.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:In reply to Appleseed :
Seems like a slight exaggeration, but yes they stop fast. Once. I used to work where that track is made. The rubber part shears off during the first hard stop.
My impression is that the rubber tracks are just for peacetime exercises/training in order not to tear up the streets and during war they run on steel?
They are the same. The track is made of metal casting and the rubber pads are bolted into them. You can destroy the rubber pads and the track will still work fine (but is destructive to the driving surface)
They are pretty impressive engines.
The British car guys have been grafting those heads onto A series Mini blocks or even stuffing the whole engine into classic Minis (not talking about those German made Johnny-come-latelys)
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
We ran a k20 6speed in a 2nd gen crx for an endurance racer,after tuning and lowing VTEC it seemed ......so tame.
While the dyno showed more power everywhere it certainly felt slower,I have mixed feelings on this :)
kevlarcorolla said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
We ran a k20 6speed in a 2nd gen crx for an endurance racer,after tuning and lowing VTEC it seemed ......so tame.
While the dyno showed more power everywhere it certainly felt slower,I have mixed feelings on this :)
yes if the crossover is done right its not so violent. Honda bumps it up so it feels cooler, even though its slower. In the S2000 VTEC engaging mid slalom can be a pain in the butt.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
the stock K20 change is like 5800. which lines up with roughly what that car is doing.
you can tune the car and not change it. it's just something EVERYONE does with their first tune because on the 8th gen civics it's easy... idk how easy it was in the past with older standalones.. we have limited info to work off of with that video..
ProDarwin said:kevlarcorolla said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
We ran a k20 6speed in a 2nd gen crx for an endurance racer,after tuning and lowing VTEC it seemed ......so tame.
While the dyno showed more power everywhere it certainly felt slower,I have mixed feelings on this :)
yes if the crossover is done right its not so violent. Honda bumps it up so it feels cooler, even though its slower. In the S2000 VTEC engaging mid slalom can be a pain in the butt.
it also helps with fuel efficiency and emissions.
the other common tuning item is to tune out the rev hang caused by the delayed throttle close.
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said:kevlarcorolla said:In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
We ran a k20 6speed in a 2nd gen crx for an endurance racer,after tuning and lowing VTEC it seemed ......so tame.
While the dyno showed more power everywhere it certainly felt slower,I have mixed feelings on this :)
yes if the crossover is done right its not so violent. Honda bumps it up so it feels cooler, even though its slower. In the S2000 VTEC engaging mid slalom can be a pain in the butt.
it also helps with fuel efficiency and emissions.
the other common tuning item is to tune out the rev hang caused by the delayed throttle close.
Yes, there are other reasons for it. Although one would argue at WOT you could make that crossover whenever you want because you don't tune WOT for emissions anyway.
My S2000 had no rev hang compared to the Veloster I drive now or the Saturns I've had in the past. The Sentra Spec-V didn't seem to have it either. Rev hang drives me a little bit insane.
Tommy f-yeah's (built a/f, ohlins, no heat, etc.) was almost exactly as fast as my 1zz turbo zzw30 with an open diff and a five speed. They're not that impressive imho. Dont get me wrpng, it's a great motor, I just dont like em in these cars. Id do an lfx or an ls. Lfx sounds awesome, has good weight dist., and a ls is just bad ass. K24 swap was grunty but didn't really feel special to me. Felt real s2k ish to me, if you want one of them, it's probably a better investment to just buy one. Gm drivelines that I discussed are arguably tougher too.
part 2. The rev hang thing makes me violently upset. I can't stand it.
Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:
Forget everything I just said, that was delightful. That seemed way more fun than the k24 was. The 24 Was gruty though. It pulled hard, even pre-changeover.
For me, I guess a big part of the problem is that the good part of vtec is so good that I resent the berkley out of it not being in vtec all the time, then i get fed up with those feelings, keep it in vtec all the time and end up in prison. Whereas with an ls or lfx, it does have soul and character across the rev range that keeps me involved when not in maximum attack mode, makes a way better street car experience for me.
Answering the original question - Yes, a K in a Miata creates an "ultimate" Miata, a balanced car with enough power to make it really fun and interesting without losing the essence of the car. Miatas aren't about absolute speed - balance, agility, and driver connectedness are a big part of the experience and the K preserves that. I hate turbo lag and think that the turbo motor takes away from the immediacy of the car even if it does get you to about the same power as a K.
Can someone round up a Rotrex Miata, FM turbo Miata, K Miata and LS powered Miata and drop them off at my house? I'd like to conduct some research before modifying my Miata......
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:Can someone round up a Rotrex Miata, FM turbo Miata, K Miata and LS powered Miata and drop them off at my house? I'd like to conduct some research before modifying my Miata......
I have a Rotrex Miata. Where do you live and how much do you want to pay me for using it? 
In reply to NickD :
Dallas. I will let you drive one of my cars.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:Can someone round up a Rotrex Miata, FM turbo Miata, K Miata and LS powered Miata and drop them off at my house? I'd like to conduct some research before modifying my Miata......
I have two of them in my garage right now. Might be easier to send me the K and the Rotrex.
Carbon (Forum Supporter) said:Tommy f-yeah's (built a/f, ohlins, no heat, etc.) was almost exactly as fast as my 1zz turbo zzw30 with an open diff and a five speed. They're not that impressive imho. Dont get me wrpng, it's a great motor, I just dont like em in these cars. Id do an lfx or an ls. Lfx sounds awesome, has good weight dist., and a ls is just bad ass. K24 swap was grunty but didn't really feel special to me. Felt real s2k ish to me, if you want one of them, it's probably a better investment to just buy one. Gm drivelines that I discussed are arguably tougher too.
The thing I remember was how badly that thing shook itself to pieces through the day too. He was griping that KMiata went too stiff on the motor mounts, envisioning them for hardcore race usage, and didn't offer softer bushings for street usage. The oil cap rattled off, the one bolt kept rattling free of the intake manifold and causing a vacuum leak and all the header collector bolts for the 2-piece header came out at the end of the day. It also kept popping the transmission out of gear.
The Honda J-series V6 is the one that calls to me, if/when I yank the Rotrex-blown BP out. It makes insane sounds, still uses the stock driveline to keep costs down (compared to the LS and LFX), and I'm sure the low-end grunt makes it a blast.
jwagner (Forum Supporter) said:Answering the original question - Yes, a K in a Miata creates an "ultimate" Miata, a balanced car with enough power to make it really fun and interesting without losing the essence of the car. Miatas aren't about absolute speed - balance, agility, and driver connectedness are a big part of the experience and the K preserves that. I hate turbo lag and think that the turbo motor takes away from the immediacy of the car even if it does get you to about the same power as a K.
A turbo changes the feel of the car. A big difference between it and an engine like the K is torque. Speed becomes more effortless, the car just makes a whoosh noise and goes faster. It's a better day to day option but may not have the same connection if you're caning it. Of course, if you're caning it hard enough to wake up the K, you're spinning that turbo engine fast enough that lag is no longer an issue. My street Miata has a turbo, my track Miatas have always been naturally aspirated - but the size of that naturally aspirated engine is not a constant :)
It all depends on your own personal definition of what a "real" Miata is, and if there's one thing we've learned over the last three decades, it's that nobody agrees on that definition.
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