Are KBB values still used today?

seems Like I have two things working against my car buying experience. KBB’s website is rife with ads and confusing as hell to use if you’re not well versed in terminology. It’s got more “buttons” than a church nun’s blouse  

Second, a lot of the “average” people think their junk is worth gold. 

Case in point- I just called a guy about his NC Miata. His listing shows $9500. It’s a 2006, auto, and has 86,500 miles. 

Kbb PRIVATE PARTY shows good condition (which this vehicle likely meets) is this: 

And excellent condition (extremely doubtful, though I’ve yet seen the car)

is this:

This guy is claiming his crap is worth $9500 minimum and won’t budge. He also told me he used kbb. And I’m thinking he maybe set it to look up what a used dealer would sell the same car for. I didn’t ask  the conversation was rather blunt  

Has anyone else ran into these retreads? Am I the retread? Lol. Is KBB still a viable tool for assessing car values today? 

I think it's a useful tool, but a lot hinges on the assessment of "condition."  My guess is that guy thinks his car is near mint.

A friend of mine recently retired out of the used car business.  He had a buy-here-pay-here lot for decades.  I asked him what to use for values and he said that Black Book is what the dealers use.

KBB notoriously undervalues enthusiast cars, especially older ones. If you're valuing a Corolla, it can be useful. A Miata, not so much.

If he won't budge, tell him to have a nice day and call you when he does.

That's more than I'd pay for it, even if it was a mint example.

A lot of people also think that modifications make their car worth the base price plus the original price of the modifications. Stereo and wheels are the worst examples of this.

I always search my local market for same type of vehicle and determine that way.

Theres NA miatas selling for 9k where I am. I've even seen few not running for around 2k. Travel 5 hours and you can pick them up all day for 3k running/driving. 

and there also they shiny people you "think" what their car is worth versus real world market

Brett_Murphy said:

That's more than I'd pay for it, even if it was a mint example.

A lot of people also think that modifications make their car worth the base price plus the original price of the modifications. Stereo and wheels are the worst examples of this.

The stereo and aftermarket “dubs” are exactly what he pointed out. Hysterically laughing, I told him “those would be the first things I change out”. 

z31maniac said:

If he won't budge, tell him to have a nice day and call you when he does.

I did. It’s what lead to the blunt conversation. Lol. 

Craziest one with KBB was a few months ago when I was buying an 07 Volvo S60 for my daughter off a friend of a friend.  HE lives about 15 miles away as the crow flies.  Putting in his zip vs ours gave over a $1,000 difference in value on a sub $5k car.  Their algorithm is berkeleyed up.  Also, I gave up searching for an LR4 and bought my new Volvo.  KBB fooled me into thinking I could get what I wanted (year, miles, condition)  I'll tell you now., they simply don't exist at a price KBB thinks they should.  

Are NADA guides any better?

Their algorithms work well IF there is enough volume of the cars. The older they get, and the rarer they were new the less accurate it will be. And I assume that their algorithms also require auction and dealer sales that are registered with the state - which is probably not where you will find most enthusiast car sales, at least past 5 years or so.

In my experience NADA is usually at least closer. Both are more accurate the newer and more readily available the cars are. Once you're looking at something more than like 8-10 years old or in a niche market they're both usually useless.

That all said, the car you described sounds like there's an extra zero on the price.

Edit: Using a 2010 cayman s as an example (a car I've been casually shopping for a while and have a decent understanding of real world values of) KBB value is a little lower than NADA and a little on the low side in general but not totally unrealistic.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I had to deal with an insurance adjuster recently, and he told me that his employer (GEICO) does not use Blue Book values anymore. I'd expressed to him that the Blue Book value of my totaled car probably didn't reflect what it was really worth. I said this in a very offhand way, but he agreed and was able to get me significantly more than I expected. He had access to some other data source that's more realistic than KBB.

After all don't they go off of what cars are selling for in the local area?

Just for fun we should look up WRX prices and compare them to Craigslist posts.

Ive also found them to undervalue enthusiasts cars. When I sold my Speed3 I had 5 people interested and I was $1k above KBB. It sold above book price too. Ultimately it depends on the condition and rarity of the car and what the buyer/seller thinks it’s worth. 

Call KBB and see which one they will sell you for $5600. What do you think they will say?

The guy selling the car can ask whatever they want, KBB doesn’t have a car to sell, as you noticed, they sell advertising. They are good on generic cars, but anything outside of the corolla/civic/minivan world, they usually are way off. 

Black Book:

MrSmokey said:

After all don't they go off of what cars are selling for in the local area?

GEICO does. I was just surprised that the (very low) KBB values I'd seen didn't at least roughly correspond to what GEICO ended up giving me. It wasn't even close... something like $8,000 for my Impreza instead of the $5,000 I'd expected.

I use KBB as a guide and find it useful. I agree it’s not a precise for older and more enthusiast cars, but it can help get you in the ballpark.

Not for anything I want/need/must buy

_ said:

Brett_Murphy said:

That's more than I'd pay for it, even if it was a mint example.

A lot of people also think that modifications make their car worth the base price plus the original price of the modifications. Stereo and wheels are the worst examples of this.

The stereo and aftermarket “dubs” are exactly what he pointed out. Hysterically laughing, I told him “those would be the first things I change out”. 

SEE?  SEE?

Dealers generally buy off MMR which is the manheim auction value. 

KBB is a place to start, I ended up exceeding KBB trade in when I sold my Focus ST to carmax. 

Private parties usually overvalue their cars, especially the "sporty stuff" 

b13990 said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I had to deal with an insurance adjuster recently, and he told me that his employer (GEICO) does not use Blue Book values anymore. I'd expressed to him that the Blue Book value of my totaled car probably didn't reflect what it was really worth. I said this in a very offhand way, but he agreed and was able to get me significantly more than I expected. He had access to some other data source that's more realistic than KBB.

To my knowledge, no insurance carrier uses KBB.  It's a joke.  That other data source is probably CCC or Audatex.  That's what the vast majority of carriers use.  Much more accurate (usually).

I endlessly get insurance customers that say, "KBB said my car is worth xxx".

Most of the time I find they are not using it correctly. Private Party value is typically close to reality if you are dealing with a normal car and not some modded enthusiast toy. Most people selling or looking for insurance payment use Retail which if you read the fine print is a pie-in-the-sky number that no rational person would ever pay. NADA values are this unless you refer to Trade-In value which is the ripoff amount a dealer will offer you on a trade.

KBB is not recognized in my state of PA as a legitimate valuation tool for insurance settlements.