Are we car nuts a dying breed?

I agree with bmw88rider. The car culture is still here but those guys at that cruise-in (and some of the people on here) wouldn't recognize it if it hit them in the face.

I refuse to go to a couple of the cruise-in's around here because they are populated by that kind of "car person". They know all about their 50's and 60's cars but, they probably wouldn't even know how to change the plugs on a modern COP vehicle.

I enjoy going to the cruise-in's where I can discuss EFI, AFR,MAP vs. MAF, etc. with people who have some understanding. I think the new breed has a better understanding of how an ICE works than many of the old farts.

BTW: I am 71 years old and have been modifying cars since I was 15. I just didn't get stuck in a rut and have moved on to more modern stuff.

Hanging out in a strip mall parking lot is also not the only way to enjoy automobiles.

As technology advances, it becomes more and more difficult for us to pass on our appreciation for cars to the next generation.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable lifting the hood on most cars built in the last 10 years.

American car shows are full of 50 year old technology. Import car shows are full of 30 year old technology. Racing is full of 20 year old technology.

Today's cars are not cars. They are computers on 4 wheels. When the software becomes obsolete, they won't even be able to be sitting in museums.

How are we going to instill an appreciation of cars in the next generation when most of us don't even know what to do with the next generation of cars?

You have to admit, the guys who do "get it" right now have got it really, really good.

I graduated in 1996, I remember how many guys lusted after 5.0 Mustangs and Pontiac Firehawks. All that cash and all that car for 300hp.

300hp is a minivan now. You can walk into a dealer, plunk down money and have a car that makes double that amount AND comes with a warranty AND gets reasonable fuel economy.

Good times indeed.

As for the computer thing, it's only a mater of time before they figure out ways around it.

I tune the ECU in my 2013 Moto Guzzi with a $20.00 cable, free software and a used laptop.

Shawn

I don't see it going away entirely but the interest is definitely heading downward. As cars get more expensive and more difficult to fix, it's only natural that less people are going to mess with them. In my mind, the start of emission controls (and the laws) spelled the start of the downward slope. I see people on the freeway looking under the hood of their BMW 330 and I can't help but wonder why. The odds of that fixing the problem versus calling for a tow are pretty slim.

In the book The Grapes of Wrath, they either broke a piston, or a connecting rod was knocking really bad in their old Ford. As I recall, they fixed it right there on the side of the road - because they could (and because they had to). Try that with any new car. Yes, that was a novel, but it does show how much less friendly and/or hands-on new cars are. Yes they're more reliable, but when they do break, we're pretty much screwed. I'm afraid that's what future car activities are up against. Those that show up at future car events will likely have invisible mods made via a laptop PC. Sadly, those with visible mods will have very likely had the work done by a shop and not the owner - we're practically there now.

mndsm wrote: It usually is. Think of the 70ss. Car culture was taken out back and shot by OPEC. We got a new one sometime in the 90s, and now that we have all the self important hipsters that think free range grass fed tofu is the best thing since cold press nano coffee..... It's not cool to be a car guy. It'll come back in one form or another. I mean, we did have vanning....

funny, most of the hipsters I know actually love cars. As long as they're vintage cars (read: e30s), and they can drop something "ironic" like an SBC under the hood.

Will also note that the author of the article went to one of the old-timer "meets" around here, so all he saw was a bunch of old guys with old rides and a bunch of chrome. This area has a half dozen large, organized regular meets that are full of all ages of people (and tons of 20-30 somethings) driving modified cars (some vintage, many more modern), supercars, etc. Had he gone to one of these events he would have gotten a totally different impression of "the scene." I've been to the meet that he went to, and yeah....it's a bunch of grandpas for the most part.

Wonder if he did that on purpose (self-fulfilling prophecy) or simply doesn't know that different meets have different types of crowds depending on the place, time, and history of "that meet."

EDIT: just read the Jalopnik rebuttal....and it's actually dead-on and says most of what I just said, lol. They even did their research as to what the "real" biggest local weekly car meet up is.....

In reply to kb58:

I get what you're saying... But I just helped do brakes on a 2012 Focus and it really wasn't any different than doing the brakes on a 1992 Escort. Except it was nice to not deal with drums on the back

Cars are still cars, at least for now. It's also cool to see some manufacturers building cars that specifically and unashamedly cater to the "pure driving experience" we all talk about. (FRS/BRZ and new MX5 most notably.) Here's hoping that's the start of a new wave.

Edit: I know the Frisbee twins aren't exactly new news, but these things take time.

Trans_Maro wrote: Nope, dead and gone. Most of the next generation of car guys I've met consider changing floormats a "mod".

Not around here. I see all kinds of young car enthusiasts around here, especially at our autocrosses. Half our drivers are well under 30, and both genders.

There's one young guy who is continually chopping his old Focus 5-door into... something. Even he doesn't really know what! But he's having fun deconstructing it and putting it back together in a new way.

Dusterbd13 wrote: My niece is 15. She brags about welding the floor patches in her truck. Yeah, kids are different from when we grew up, but the car culture ain't dying. May not be as popular anymore, but I have hope.

IDK, I was just talking to my dad (whose first car was a Triumph GT6), and he is of the opinion that the "car culture" back in the 60s and 70s is revisionist history, and that there were a handful of guys he knew who wanted hot-rods and fast cars, and a handful of girls who cared if you rolled up in a fresh Camaro or Mustang - but that most people he knew back then were just happy to HAVE a car and didn't much car about hot-rodding it up (or couldn't afford to). Frankly, modding a car is MUCH easier now than it was - at least for performance (though back then cosmetics were probably easier). I can click my mouse a few times and have 100hp worth of perfect-fitting parts in the mail in 5 minutes. When I started messing with cars in the late 80s, if you wanted a part, better mail away for a catalog, then mail in your order, then wait 4-6 weeks for it to arrive.

Yes, a lot of the younger crowd lives in the trendy inner cities right now - which is not friendly to owning a car (no parking) or modding a car (no garage or space for tools). But a lot of us live in the 'burbs too. I'm in my 30s, a white-collar government worker living just outside D.C., and currently have two rallycross cars (one is someone else's), a modded WRX, and a lightly-modded Sequoia in my driveway - plus a Triumph GT6 around back. The 20-year old across the street has a modded WRX. The 40-something up the way has a Polestar Volvo in electric blue. My neighbor has motorcyles and a modded Mustang. The other 50% of my street, admittedly, has the usual Camrys, Accords, Versas, Suburbans, and minivans.

And cars from the factory now are so excellent in many cases, there is less need to mod it. You can buy a V6 Accord and it's pretty damn fast from the stoplight, handles well, etc. Buy a Mustang or Miata (or Accord, or - dare I say - Camry) today and it would probably crush most 1980s exotic supercar on the track, stock for stock. And it would absolutely annihilate any street car from the 1950s or 1960s. Cars back then sucked in stock form. You HAD to know about cars if you wanted it to actually be good at driving, or if you wanted to keep it running.

Most of the true hipsters I know actually are pretty good mechanically and very much hands on. They just like different stuff like the Scooters, cafe bikes, and E30's and not muscle cars.

There is a very strong car culture out there if you look. You just have to get away from the city centers and actually talk to people that like cars.

Yes, technology makes it easier to connect but they realize eventually that they need a car to actually get to jobs or to take that new job off the subway line or that uber won't take you to that killer music festival you want to go to. Or they actually want to buy a house and discover that houses on the subway line are stupid expensive and there is a reason people live on the edge of town.

kb58 wrote: In the book The Grapes of Wrath, they either broke a piston, or a connecting rod was knocking really bad in their old Ford. As I recall, they fixed it right there on the side of the road - because they could (and because they had to). Try that with any new car. Yes, that was a novel, but it does show how much less friendly and/or hands-on new cars are. Yes they're more reliable, but when they do break, we're pretty much screwed.

/rant on

That's the attitude I was talking about. I'll be dammed if I can see much difference between the connecting rods in my father's 69 Mustang and my 2001 Focus other than size. Maybe the newer ones are a little harder to get to but, they are still connecting rods! Now if you are talking about pouring new babbit bearings for a Model T (which I have done), I think replacing the bearings in my Focus would be much easier.

As long as we (collectively) have the attitude that new cars are hard to work on; we are contributing to the problem!

SVreX wrote: As technology advances, it becomes more and more difficult for us to pass on our appreciation for cars to the next generation. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable lifting the hood on most cars built in the last 10 years. American car shows are full of 50 year old technology. Import car shows are full of 30 year old technology. Racing is full of 20 year old technology. Today's cars are not cars. They are computers on 4 wheels. When the software becomes obsolete, they won't even be able to be sitting in museums. How are we going to instill an appreciation of cars in the next generation when most of us don't even know what to do with the next generation of cars?

Im pretty sure my dad said the same thing about catalytic converters and throttle body injection when I was a kid.

bmw88rider wrote: Honestly, I find it a heck of a lot easier to work on modern cars than old cars.

BullE36 M3. I have a 1980 toyota corolla and holy crap is it easy to diagnose. Misfire? Plugs, cap/rotor, or coil. Bog/hesitation? Carb tuning. Won't start? Fuel filter plugged.

It is HILARIOUS how easy it is to work on. Yes, modern day cars (ie: built after 2008) are much easier to diagnose electronically, but jesus my brain has hurt over some of the retarded problems of working on OBD1 and OBD2 cars from the late 80's through early millennium. Cars that I have given up on after replacing every single god damn part and not having anything to show for it.

Used cars are also much more expensive now then they used to be. When I was 16, I could find running, driving, non-falling apart cars for $300-$500 all day long. Now if it runs and drive and can be registered in province, its a $1500. Doesn't matter if it has holes rusted through it, that is the price of a running and driving car. Minimum wage was $5.25 12 years ago, its now 9? But most kids have a lot less time to work then they did back then if they aspire to go on to post secondary with high grades.

Car culture will fade do to the way society is going, it is inevitable and is happening. Did you know that the domesticated horse population the world over is down 95% from its peak (which coincidentally was just around the time Henry Ford introduced the Model A IIRC). Cars will be the same way, especially once automated cars become common place.

I feel like alot of younger people dont care about their cars besides being able to go point A to point B. Whenever I go into work dirty and talk about changing parts my coworkers look at me like im crazy. But in the end I dont think our culture will go anywhere anytime soon.

HiTempguy wrote:

bmw88rider wrote: Honestly, I find it a heck of a lot easier to work on modern cars than old cars.

BullE36 M3. I have a 1980 toyota corolla and holy crap is it easy to diagnose. Misfire? Plugs, cap/rotor, or coil. Bog/hesitation? Carb tuning. Won't start? Fuel filter plugged. It is HILARIOUS how easy it is to work on. Yes, modern day cars (ie: built after 2008) are much easier to diagnose electronically, but jesus my brain has hurt over some of the retarded problems of working on OBD1 and OBD2 cars from the late 80's through early millennium. Cars that I have given up on after replacing every single god damn part and not having anything to show for it.

Agree. I despise working on my WRX (though I have quite a bit). But pretty much everything on the e30 is easy.

bmw88rider wrote: Most of the true hipsters I know actually are pretty good mechanically and very much hands on. They just like different stuff like the Scooters, cafe bikes, and E30's and not muscle cars. There is a very strong car culture out there if you look. You just have to get away from the city centers and actually talk to people that like cars. Yes, technology makes it easier to connect but they realize eventually that they need a car to actually get to jobs or to take that new job off the subway line or that uber won't take you to that killer music festival you want to go to. Or they actually want to buy a house and discover that houses on the subway line are stupid expensive and there is a reason people live on the edge of town.

The biggest hipster I know drives this:

and in case you didn't notice the exhaust dumping in front of the front wheels, this is one of the things he did to it (himself, and he's maybe 20 years old if that)

In reply to irish44j:

SEMA hasn't returned to pre-crash levels. People not wanting a license. Stricter and stricter emissions laws.

If you are smart enough to work on modern stuff you are in Valhalla. Else, it might be the beginning of the end.

I say that car enthusiasts aren't dwindling, we were always a small part of the population. I think that some of us are more paranoid about it than others.

Some of yall sound like old farts. The car enthusiast are not dying at all. I'm 26, I see 16 yr old folks very into cars. I went to this huge euro car event in San Diego yesterday and there were so many young folks there. No, not many young folks are into 50's American iron but look at 80/90's car scene. Lots of young folks. It's just we're not TOO into Bel Airs and old 3 window trucks as much as the boomers. We're into the cars we lusted after as children just like old folks did for thier 60's cars. Not dead, just not the same as you're into. I'veseen plent of old gearheads bash drifting but never took the time to realize what goes into building those cars and how majority of them would destroy their beloved muscle cars in the 1/4 too.

Btw, I've had cars of many vintage and genre's. But, that's just me.

What I like about GRM is we have so many different types of enthusiasts.

i hope not but the last 4-5 courtesy people we have hired at work and the local parts store employees make me think it is. Most of these guys know more about skin and hair care then they do there cars. i dont expect everyone to be able to work on them but not even knowing what size engine is in your car saddens me.

Also, social media isn't the end of the car culture. It's keeping it alive. After all, we're all posting here which is social media.

Remember that this was published by a newspaper. What generation subscribes to newspapers? Give your customers what they want to read; that the world is going to hell now that they aren't running it.

Mitchell wrote: Remember that this was published by a newspaper. What generation subscribes to newspapers? Give your customers what they want to read; that the world is going to hell now that they aren't running it.

Mitchel, I am trying to clarify your POV. So a generation that doesn't care about cars, wants to buy newspapers talking about stuff they don't care about?