Audi - What is the Real Deal with these cars?

So what seems to be my never ending quest for a replacement for the X type I keep coming back to Audi's Specifically the A6 AWD.

Now according to myth and legend at 100K miles they will implode in to a huge ball of fire then melt in to a pool of molten metal and the explode killing everyone with in a 5 mile radius. However I see Audi's all over the place. They are as common as subaru's or Toyota's around here. Maybe more so.

So what is the real deal with these cars. Is there a bad motor and or a good motor? A A6 with a 4.2 quatro would definitely tick all the rite box's. Furthermore what look like very nice cars seem to be in the 7-10K range (for 10 year old ones with about 100K on the clock). I also see many of them selling with well over 170-180K and they are still commanding decent money.

I like the look of the mid 2000's cars, size and a V8 AWD would make it go darn nice. There are V6's and turbo 4's as well.

Is there a particular motor to stay away from? Or particular year?

I am familiar with German cars. I have had many P cars so the whole German thing would not be new to me.

My sis in law bought a 2000 a6 Quattro wagon new. Has about 250k on it. Still goes good. They have paid as much in maintenance as they spent buying it.

I have no idea. My cousin has an A8 that's been bulletproof, and he knows someone with an A6 Avant with 180k on it or something. And if you look at things like JD power or CR, they aren't that much worse than anything else. But the internet tells me to run away.

Still considering putting a 2012+ A6 3.0T in my garage:

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

Same boat as you I am just attracted to tge older ones. A little softer lines.

A coworker had an 08 A6 until a couple weeks ago. Had over 150k and still going strong. Got rear-ended...hard. No injuries. Is buying a Q5 to replace it.

Honestly, Audis are pretty stout, they just can have little annoying electrical issues with accessories. Nothing debilitating though.

A 2006 Audi A6 4.2 Quattro has pretty high quality ratings for everything but Accessories Mechanical Quality from JD Power, so that should give you an idea.

I've owned a few of the older 5-cylinder ones, so my experience may not directly apply, but I have done enough looking into newer ones and have a lot of anecdotal experience through friends...

My impression is that you need to buy the absolute nicest one you can afford with a massive stack of service records. Once maintenance starts getting deferred, the costs snowball exponentially and they become ridiculously expensive to own. A few of the powertrains have unique issues (early 1.8T) and some are apparently just horrible to work on (3.0, 4.2). But the ones that seem to be just AWFUL cars for their owners always seem to have a history of neglect or ignorant maintenance. The ones that look great and run well at 200k+ are out there, but they need pampering to get that far.

From what I've seen, the timing belt driven 2.8 and 3.0 V6 are pretty good, along with the belt drive V8's. The 4 cylinders and chain driven V6/V8 are the problem childs. The chain drive is on the back of the motor and looks like a swiss watch. The tensioners wear out and the motor has to come out to service them. Some guys manage to drop the trans and do it from underneath, YMMV.

As a past owner of an Allroad and a Phaeton and now a 3.6 Passat I can say they are all great cars, repairs can be costly but if you spend 8,000 on a car, pop for another 2 bills to get an aftermarket extended warrantee. It buys some peace of mind and every one I've had MORE than paid for itself over the lifecycle of ownership.

I say go for it, they really are phenomenal driving cars.

4.2 belt engine: Awesome.

4.2 chain engine: Run away!

2.8 V6 engine: Slow but anvil.

3.0 V6 engine: Anvil IF you do certain maintenance precautions. (Replace the cam gear bolts now, and Loctite them. They back out and cause the world to end, because for some reason Audi made three piece cam gears. You will need a $400 cam holding kit to do this. Great engine otherwise)

2.7 biturbo: Insufficient data. This article is a stub, you can help by expanding it.

Knurled wrote: 4.2 belt engine: Awesome. 4.2 chain engine: Run away! 2.7 biturbo: Insufficient data. This article is a stub, you can help by expanding it.

The 4.2 chain engine is awesome unless the guides fail. If they do it's expensive, but don't believe everything the internet tells you about how likely they are to actually fail.

The 2.7T is awesome and will make a ton of power.

I've owned several Audis:

2.7T:

4.2 chain:

4.0T:

The B5 had the usual suspension, after run coolant pump, and bypass valve issues. The B6 had the usual suspension, coil, and window regulator issues, the motor reliable except for a weirdo one-off coolant O-ring failure that required taking the engine out (covered by warranty, fortunately). The C7 has been pretty good so far, but it's only 6 months old.

I had a B5 Passat (sister car to the A4). The front suspension design is absolute crap if you live anywhere that has rough roads. Replaced 2 full sets of the front end control arms in the time I had it.

The 1.8T's can have a lot of issues related to the turbos. Very complicated PCV system, the turbos bake all the hoses.

Lot's of electrical issues. The wiring all comes down by the dead pedal and they start to fail. BCM starts to freak out. Everything starts to stop working.

Stay out of the B5 (Passat 98-05) (A4 98-01) and I think things are better. Parts are pricey for them all.

In reply to NGTD:

In all of the Audi work I have done, I have only seen ONE car need the suspension links done. It was an A8 with 330k miles on it.

I will admit that I have an A4 in my care with 200k on that is starting to show cracks in the upper bushings. That particular car is so clean that I've called dibs if the owner decides to trade it in.

We could be said to have rough roads here Have replace many many bent and cracked Audi wheels.

No Audi front end problems, no Audi sludge problems... maybe I just live in the Audi version of Heaven where everything is awesome all the time.

I suspect what happens is some shops replace everything for the hell of it or something (the steering shakes, let's replace all the front end parts before looking for a bent wheel!) and they tighten the bushings down drooped. The bushings will not tolerate that. It IS a pain in the ass to tighten them at ride height, but necessary.

I can't draw from personal experience, as I've never owned an Audi...by choice. In my eyes, they have the reputation they do for a reason. Reliability is gawd awful. I swear I can hear through the phone the eyes rolling when an Audi gets to a shop. I'm sure there are Audis that have gone 200k miles with just basic maintenance, but my feeling is that's the exception rather than the rule. They're trouble and expensive to fix. If I were ever interested in one, the only way I'd do it is leasing. Get the experience of a new Audi but I can hand it back before the E36 M3 hits the fan...and it's out of warranty.

dean,
You seem to have a passion for cars with less than stellar reliability reputations. Can I interest you in a Biturbo? I'm sure I can help you find one that ran when parked and needs nothing more than a new battery.

Basic maintenance is not cheap. 5-8 quarts of synthetic oil for oil changes isn't cheap. Brakes aren't cheap. Timing belt jobs can run $500-1000 in parts, not counting any special tools required. Window regulators fail about as often as any other car but they also are not cheap.

The problem is that people ignore the maintenance because it is expensive, then the car falls apart, then they blame the car for being a POS. A Cavalier will fall apart in the same amount of time with the same neglect, but the difference is that a Cavalier is cheaper to maintain so it gets maintained. Or if it falls apart, the attitude is that it was a disposable car so who cares.

In reply to Klayfish:

I like odd ball cars. I also keep a backup appliance around.

I also read your post like so many other I see on the web. No real experience but restating the supposed inevitably of disaster with these cars.

I get the feeling that Audi is no worse than any other premium car. Why do Subaru's get a pass when they all seem to need head gaskets at 100k. Or 944s with there infamous timing belt. I get the feeling that with Audi they have a couple bad eggs in terms of design that have tainted the reputation of all there cars and motors.

That is the point of this thread. To try and sort out internet myth and legend from fact with respect to these cars.

In reply to Knurled:

I did the control arms myself and I did tighten them at ride height, not jacked up in the air.

Believe me, they needed to be done.

I remain convinced that the design of the front suspension on these cars is needlessly complex and with non-servicable joints, it is an expensive and long task even as a DIY.

I had the car 6 years and put over 100k km's on it, so my experience is pretty extensive.

I never recommend a B5 chassis to anyone.

Between my wife and I we are on VW #6 and I am still rocking an 03 Golf as my DD. I am not a VW/Audi basher.

I wonder what the difference is then.

Personally I think the dual ball joint design is brilliant. It allows the steering axis to be placed without concern for packaging constraints. That is a lot of why the tinkertoy Audis have such nice steering feel for what they are.

Not long after Audi started doing it, BMW and Ford started doing it too, although only on the lowers.

My only real experience with them is the 2001 A6 2.7T that my wife bought new right around the time we got married. She drove it for 7 years and just over 100k miles. In that time, the only repair that wasn't routine maintenance was an auxiliary water pump, covered under warranty. The car was a joy to drive. Audi interiors are gorgeous, and this one still looked like new when we got rid of the car. Would buy again.

That said, I would be VERY selective about a buying a used Audi. Certainly, there is a potential for massive repair bills.

All I know is I want an S3, desperately.

There's nothing wrong with the front suspension design -- it's a front multi-link, it provides many of the advantages of a double-a-arm without taking up anywhere close to as much space. The problem is that the bushings on the control arms only last 60-80K miles. You can replace the bushings by themselves, but the labor of paying someone to do that is more than the cost of a replacement arm, so everyone just does the arms.

It's also a very DIYable job, and while the OEM arms can be quite expensive ($1500+ for a set), aftermarket ones are $300-500 depending on which ones you get. If you're doing it, consider spending a bit more on the aftermarkets and upgrading the upper arms to adjustable ones (like this), which will give you adjustable camber and caster in the front. Adding camber at the front helps with dialing out some of the understeer without lifting the inside rear and losing traction the way that adding a giant rear sway bar does.

My girlfriend had an 04 a4 1.8t one that her dad bought new, headgasket was replaced 4 times, ends up head was cracked all along but Audi techs never bothered checking (weird cause I'm pretty sure that head was supposed to be recalled). Anyways I LOVED that car, it was the ultra sport package so it handled well and looked the part also. We would like another but are afraid of the VAG issues. They aren't internet hearsay they are real. The question is do you want to take that gamble and possibly have either a reliable car or one that visits the shop frequently?

My experience isn't limited to that one Audi, it was just the only one I owned (I had the same motor in a vw and had similar repair issues).

Basically your mileage may vary, but if you got off so easily with the jag, why do you want to keep pressing your luck? You've got a gambling problem don't you... Haha

Combing through these responses, it seems like a lot of the cars mentioned are the B5 chassis, especially when combined with the 1.8T motor. Is it possible that those cars were the ones who created this bad reputation that Audi has in online circles? After all, it was a very popular chassis, especially since it was shared with the Passat, so there were a lot of them around. And their heyday was the early to mid 2000s when web forums were at their peak, as well. So, the combination of a very popular but trouble-prone model and the rise of places where people can complain about them seems to have led to the reputation that Audi has today.

Or I could be crazy and they are all time bombs. I don't know.

It's funny how it works. The A4 gets most of the bad rap because they were INEXPENSIVE. You could get a new A4 quattro for $24k. A non-quattro for even less. But they cost the same to maintain as a $40-50k A6 or a $80-120k A8. So what you get is people who can't/won't spend the money for upkeep and repairs as things age.

IMO if I were looking at an A6, I'd also look at A8s. Same weight but much more car (figuratively and literally).

I just remember when the plastic distributor gear decided to break on my Coupe Quattro in rush hour traffic. T'was not a good day. I couldn't fathom how such a crucial part was made so cheaply on a car that cost so much new, and began a long period of rueing Audi. My hatred is calming down after most of a decade as I see where FWD TT prices are going, but man, I'm a lot more reserved about the brand than I used to be.

On the other hand, my 200 Quattro was a tank mechanically, but the windows and sunroof worked on their own schedule. At least that problem didn't keep me from getting to work.