Automatic transmission trackday car?

I have never been very coordinated, and now that I am firmly in middle age, I am finally accepting that I will never be able to manage a heel-toe downshift, especially since I still have trouble just rev-matching.  Still not sure I want to get into trackdays (going to try to dip my foot into the pool at some point), but if I do, any opinions on what is out there that would make a reasonable beginner's car for doing them?  I am thinking something that will quick enough that it won't get run over by all the faster cars on the track, but not so fast to get me into way more trouble than I can handle.  With a transmission that is durable enough and able to be to be shifted quickly, I'd hope it would still be fun. 

My wife's Mk7 GTI DSG seems like a decent candidate, once she is done with using it as her daily driver.  From the limited reading I've done, the transmission can handle track use, at least on a fairly stock car.  Anything else out there that might be a good candidate?

That seems like the perfect answer. Why wait until she's done using it? Would be a perfect dual duty car and the DSG shouldn't have an issue.

Olemiss540 said:

That seems like the perfect answer. Why wait until she's done using it? Would be a perfect dual duty car and the DSG shouldn't have an issue.

She'd probably kill me   She had been in the market for a new car last year, but delayed that since she's working from home now.  At this point, it may be a race between me getting a chance to get on track to see if I want to mess with it versus when she trades it in.  I don't own anything trackworthy right now, so I am inclined to do one of those supercar experiences next time I'm out in Vegas, to see if a track day is my kind of adrenaline rush.  Also planning a few other things to see what direction I may want to go in the car hobby for a while.

1960s Porsche Sportmatic....?

You can do track days with a manual trans and not have to heel-toe.

I don’t do it and still have a ton of fun.

An 05 Malibu works, apparently :P

Not a popular answer but,  I tracked my first gen Dodge Avenger. 2.5 V6, auto transmission and all. Was not lighting fast but handles pretty good.  I  just wait to roll up to the grid so I'm close to the back.  Go out and have a blast.  Run a good constant, predictable line and let the faster guys  by when they catch you. 

You already own what I would have suggested. Grab some track insurance and go have fun!

I don't know specifics of the VW one, but their corporate cousins in Porsche and Audi seem to handle track days fine.

A friend of mine was looking at a similar question and tried an Evo X with the flappy-paddle transmission.  It did NOT like the track, 3-4 laps at Laguna Seca and it was in limp-home mode.  He replaced it with an E46 M3 with an SMG which works fine on the track. 

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Left foot braking sends the Evo's trans fluid temps to the moon.

I've no idea about the GTI, but apparently the DSG unit in the RS3 tends to puke fluid from its vent when subjected to track time, but you can buy really nice looking yet hideously expensive catch cans for them.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

I've no idea about the GTI, but apparently the DSG unit in the RS3 tends to puke fluid from its vent when subjected to track time, but you can buy really nice looking yet hideously expensive catch cans for them.

Can you add a cooler?  My buddy with the Evo was thinking of that before he realized how cheap SMG M3s were.  That transmission kinda sucks to drive on the street, but it works fine on the track.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Yes.  Not sure how effective.

But please elaborate on cheap SMG M3s.  I've yet to drive one, but from what I hear, they're similar to the automated manual in the Smart, which works really well if you forget you're driving an automatic and do things like lift off the throttle when you expect to upshift.  It's like driving a manual with your left foot and right hand tied behind your back.

Now, I don't know how this translates to SMG, but... again, taking offers for a drive

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

But please elaborate on cheap SMG M3s.  I've yet to drive one, but from what I hear, they're similar to the automated manual in the Smart, which works really well if you forget you're driving an automatic and do things like lift off the throttle when you expect to upshift.  It's like driving a manual with your left foot and right hand tied behind your back.

Well, "cheap" is relative.  SMG M3s go for $3-4K less than manual ones because that's about what it costs to convert an SMG into a manual.  Nobody wants the SMG. :)  E46s in general have also gone up a bunch since this happened -- he got his for something like $6500 (auction price) and I'm pretty sure you won't see one at that point now.

Mine was an SMG originally (it's got an E36 5-speed in it now as a part of the ST4 build), I drove it on the street with the SMG for a few months before it got caged.  SMGs get their bad reputation from people who expect them to be automatics -- they're not.  Sure, they have a "D" mode, but the mechanical bits of a single clutch system expect the driver to do things with the throttle at the same time as the clutch.  If you drive it around like an automatic (no lift on upshift) then it drives like a 16-year-old who just got his license and is borrowing his buddy's manual transmission car.  OTOH, if you drive it as someone who knows how to drive a manual but wants to just pull the paddle instead of messing with the clutch pedal and shifter, then you can get it to drive smoothly on about 90% of the shifts.  Yeah, that's still pretty terrible, and I'd never buy one as a street car or even a dual-duty street car that occasionally goes to the track.

OTOH it works fine when doing 9-10/10ths laps at the track, all of those part-throttle street drivability problems just don't exist any more.  So if the only street driving it does is getting to/from the track and it doesn't commute to work then it's a potential option.

wspohn said:

1960s Porsche Sportmatic....?

Sportomatics were basically  a 4 speed with a torque converter ,  same idea as the VW Autostick, 

there is a contact in the shifter that activates a vacuum tank attached to the clutch arm ,

I would think the weak link would be the torque converter. , there were not lock-up torque converters then , that might be an option , 

it was called the "Saxomatic" earlier in the 1960s as a VW special order.

Why not rent a car for a track day weekend? Then you'll know if it's for you or not. 

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Like Codrus says, you need to drive it like a manual and they are fine. 

I love my SMG and if I take you for a spin with me driving you would never realize it is a single clutch. 

They do shine on track though. Even if no one believes me :)

You do not need to heel toe to go do trackdays.

in fact, driving a car more smoothly and focusing less on peak laptimes is going to be better for the whole car.

you'll work the brakes less, you'll work the tires less and you'll have zero need to heel toe.

if you have something manual, put some track pads on it and flush in some better brake fluid. if you have a more performance oriented tire, that would be good, you might ground your all seasons to bits, but I did my dozen laps in the Fit at NOLA in November, on 600tw all seasons, the shoulders just look awful, but they'll be fine for many tens of thousands of street miles they will see in the future. 

go out and drive.

But, to your question, i'd research the DSG GTi's and see how they are.

but honestly i did an hour of track time in my focus ST ar MSR Creesson on the 1.7 back in 2018 and because it was a turbo i threw it in 3rd gear and left it there for my first session, 2nd session i used a little bit of 4th as well.

When we used to run the "Mineral Ring" 1.1 mile test and tune course out in mineral wells I would row through 2 and 3. i didn't heel toe, i would shift smoothly mid corner while I was getting ready to apply throttle for the exit. i've got over a hundred laps of doing that in that car.

A dual-clutch automatic box is arguably better suited for novice track drivers in many instances anyways. So a DSG GTI would be a great choice.

And you don't need to heel-toe to enjoy a track day; remember a track day is not racing as such there is no reason to get hung up on what are in effect, today, racing techniques. While heel-toe shifting smooths out downshifts, it's not a wholly necessary technique to master in this day in age. Remember this is a technique that has its genesis in an era when 'synchromesh' was a non-existent word. You had to match the revs to get the gear lever into place in many instances in all vehicles in the past. As a result the heel-toe technique was borne out of necessity as much as 'best practice'.

That said, have you tried to 'heel-toe' in reverse of the way it is commonly taught? The common approach today is brake with toe, blip throttle with heel. Personally, I've never found a way to do this comfortably or reliably, my ankle simply does not want to roll that way. Instead, I heel-toe the opposite way and modulate the brake with my heel and blip the throttle with my toe, rolling my foot off and over onto the throttle when necessary. It works fine for me and I'm able to do what needs to be done in competition scenarios.

Probably anything will work with the proper cooling. 

Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) said:

Probably anything will work with the proper cooling. 

Yup.  If you can keep it cool and the trans doesn't have any bad behaviors on track that you can't force it out of, it'll do the job. 

I've can't even begin to remember the number of students I've had that:  

A. Brought a car with an automatic transmission.

B. Didn't know how to heel and toe.

They all had fun regardless.

As someone who tracks an automatic as long as you can downshift going into the corner and have a trans cooler you should be fine.

Porsche PDK and massive debt?

With GTIs people tend to run into engine heat issues before DSG heat issues, and those cars are running upgraded turbos. A stock or lightly upgraded GTI shouldn't give you any heat issues.

I have a manual clutch GTI that I do track days in and if for some reason I had to go to a two pedal car a DSG GTI would be one of the first cars I look at.

Another option....  have you considered an ND2 Miata? Mazda's latest auto transmissions are really good, good enough that I imagine it wouldn't dampen the joy of driving one.