Keith Tanner said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:maschinenbau said:I'm selling my 2018 DD and replaced it with a 2002. I am the data.
Your 2018 is like 25 in non-Italian years, though.
*ducks*
Cold. So cold.
It's been painful to watch, I can't imagine what it's like to live through it.
aircooled said:MadScientistMatt said:I'm curious what that curve would look like if you extended it back to 1960 or so.
Looks like I was able to find data from 1970 to 2000 to help extend the curve. In 1970, the average age was 5.3 years, rising to 7.5 by 1984.
My fleet's average age is 26 - if you only count cars that run, it would be 12.
The 5 years in 1970 probably had a lot to do with the fact that a car in the north east would turn into a paper thin carcass of iron oxide in a few years if driven regularly. I suspect some here have some stories about that...
Materials science advances, fuel injection, and electronically controlled transmissions have also had a massive effect on cars' longevity since 1970. What kind of surprises me is that it was improving before FI was widespread. I'd be curious to see the inflation adjusted average car price along the same timeline. I'd also love to see longevity broken down by brand, to see if the increasing number of Japanese imports had a significant effect on how long cars lasted.
In reply to eastsideTim :
Speaking of which.... drive by wire has probably done more to enhance transmission life than anything else. They can cut power when shifting. Automatics designed in the 50s/60s tended to be overbuilt because they had to deal with having to shift under load. And then they usually wore out (relatively) quickly because they got smooth shifting by sleeeeeazing the trans into the next gear with soft engagement. You'd pull the pan for the 30k mile trans fluid/filter change and there would be piles of sediment in the pan and on top of the filter, especially in more "luxury" cars.
The trans guy I used to use said he has seen 200k mile modern transmissions that still had visible printing on the bands and clutches. This isn't a miracle of transmission development, it's transmission-friendly engine management. Cut power, shift quickly, reapply power.
28 years, but my 61 Bugeye is skewing my numbers.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
That's why it's the first thing you fix when tuning
In reply to Mr. Peabody :
I never did. The corollary is that the transmissions are designed around engine management that does that. Why would I want to eliminate that?
I used to have a transmissiom that chirped the tires on every shift. It was a C6, connected to a 9", so I got the opportunity to get good at replacing U-joints.
Five vehicles, avg 27.4. Leave out the 63 Morris Minor, still at 20 years. 88 Silverado, 99 Miata, 04 Ralliart wagon, 14 Mazda 5.
We're at 8 years average age ('17, '16, and '06), but at 215k, 196k, and 84k (wife's car). So our average is 8 years old with 165k. Swapping my '01 Mustang GT (307k) for the '17 Odyssey with 196k last year definitely dropped our average age and mileage a bit.
My wonderful wife and I have been married for 38 years and still have never purchased a new vehicle, unless you count the scratch and dent lawn tractor we purchased new 9 years ago at Lowes.
We have lost count on the total number of vehicles we have owned over all these years but currently our daily use vehicles are 07, 11, 17. The 17 is due to pick up trucks being so hard to find and we came across a great deal on the low mileage Nissan pick up that was quite a bit less money than the several older high mile trucks we were looking at. Older vehicles have always gotten us where we needed to be and see no reason for ever getting a new vehicle. Our 2 project cars, not yet on the road are a 68 and 78. Very interesting conversation. Thanks, John-Lugoff, SC.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:This is my favorite stat for the "Cars don't last like they used to" crowd.
01 Boxster S - 19 Fusion Sport - 15 Expedition
Me too, but even on this forum facts mean nothing. I've seen people here claim these stats are false and that it's a factor of more cars being on the road, not that they last longer, even though that's entirely backwards if you think about it. Logic and stats are never enough for true believers of their own world view.
If you think about it, if logic and stats were used in this forum, it wouldn't exist.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:maschinenbau said:I'm selling my 2018 DD and replaced it with a 2002. I am the data.
Your 2018 is like 25 in non-Italian years, though.
*ducks*
My apologies to maschinenbau, but that's brilliant.
*ducks*
28.5, with a 2000, 1994 (daily), 1983, at 138k, 172k, and likely 200+k. The E21 is oldest/ highest millage, they'd rolled back the odometer - it had fewer miles on the odometer than on the old title when I reg'd it.
Currently 5 years with a 14 and 18. Was 8 years until recently (had a 2004 winter beater).
Newest is a 2011. Oldest is a 1986. Total average is 26.2. Average Mileage is 140K, highest being 273K ('04) and lowest is 61K ('90).
I'm seriously considering purchasing a brand new vehicle at end of 2022, which would change it some.
Running average 14 years
throw MonZora in there and it's 24-1/2
I don't buy new cars. I let other fools have the depreciation hit for the sake of impressing the neighbors.
My criteria is usually something less than 10 years old with right around 100,000 miles on it. Sticking with manual transmissions up until the last one also was helpful as nobody wants them outside of the GRM universe, though they are near-impossible to sell when I'm done using them up. I'm also not afraid of a scratch-n-dent model because the wife doesn't take care of the cosmetics and I'm done fighting that.
Last purchase was a 2010 Jetta Sportwagen, 2.5 auto, for $5300. From a car lot. Now has 160,000+ on it and has cost almost nothing to own after fixing a few oil leaks and replacing the rear shocks. I don't intend to replace it until the transmission pukes.
The money we don't spend constantly buying newer cars has paid off our house by the time I was 53.
Also, new cars suck. Too much annoying, intrusive technology I don't need/want. My company car Fusion (I'm not really cheating as I only drive it for work) has convinced me Sync and a dozen nanny aids only make the driving experience worse.
Drivable: Average is 4 years old
Fleet: Average is 17 years old
It would be interesting to see data on average age by state. I would think the average gets higher as you go south or southwest from here (Michigan). I'll be in the garage today hammering pieces of a Chevy Astro fender into patch panels to repair rust on a 2003 MINI Cooper. My 1999 Miata has rust in all the usual NB places and needs attention ,too. Driving 20-30 year old vehicles in the rust belt isn't easy.
I have a 1988, a 1986, a 1965 and a 1961, so an average age of 46 years.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to eastsideTim :
Speaking of which.... drive by wire has probably done more to enhance transmission life than anything else. They can cut power when shifting. Automatics designed in the 50s/60s tended to be overbuilt because they had to deal with having to shift under load. And then they usually wore out (relatively) quickly because they got smooth shifting by sleeeeeazing the trans into the next gear with soft engagement. You'd pull the pan for the 30k mile trans fluid/filter change and there would be piles of sediment in the pan and on top of the filter, especially in more "luxury" cars.
The trans guy I used to use said he has seen 200k mile modern transmissions that still had visible printing on the bands and clutches. This isn't a miracle of transmission development, it's transmission-friendly engine management. Cut power, shift quickly, reapply power.
Or, in the case of my BMW under heavy throttle, cut some power, shift almost as slowly as an average manual driver, then reapply power. Compared to the Jeep which would pull a bit of timing on shifts stock, but I tuned that out. It never shifted all that softly, but with a few tweaks, it now just puts the abuse into the rest of the driveline. It's not overly harsh, but it grabs each gear pretty quickly and firmly. It's got 249k miles on that trans (started modding stuff at 120k), so I guess that theory can work well enough.
The average age is 26.5. My newest vehicle is older than the national average.
06, 05, 03, 03, 00, 96, 88, 80, 56.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Mr. Peabody :
The corollary is that the transmissions are designed around engine management that does that. Why would I want to eliminate that?
So are the engines designed around that engine management...
You don't have to eliminate it and go full destroy mode, just fix it. Auto trans are never tuned for performance as a priority, and while some are not terrible, a lot really are. And with a little tweak you can make a huge difference in the way a car drives without destroying reliability.
Somebody on here once said (criticizing what I was doing) about tuning my truck, do you know that any change you make is shortening the life of the engine? The stock tune will give you the best life.
Ten years later that's still funny
My average model year is 1988, which also happens to be when I was born. Newest is 2007 which is still older than the average.
Average age of 17 years across 4 vehicles. Y'all are making me feel like I'm relatively modern.
Now the interesting point is that many of the older cars are weekend/toys/collectibles. Definitely true for me. The two oldest cars only move about once a month, the two newest are pulling DD duty
My daily driver is a 1993 Ford I bought in 1995.My classics are a 1968 bought new and a 1969 I bought 25yrs ago.
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