Beater Rallycross car: what the heck am I doing here?

This is a bit of a rehash of Irish44j's thread, but it has been a while, eh?

Every time I run the Forester in a rallycross I always feel like I am leaving a bit on the table since it is my daily driver and I don't want to break it. I'm also running on the same tires I drive to the event on so I also worry about debeading them.

So, I started thinking I want an inexpensive car that I can still drive on the road from time to time. It doesn't have to be great, but it will have to pass inspection- 95 and later OBDII emissions if I go with a car that new. I want something that still has good aftermarket support and parts availability, for not much more than $1500, which is what I am hoping to get for my Golf if I ever get it running (dangit).

Current list of cars that are not being considered

Older Golf: Have one, hate it, trying to sell it but I have to get it running first, plus prices are going UP. Thanks, Hellaflush and Stance!

Neon: Had some of these (even a NYG!). Pretty much done with them at this point.

RX-7: I have owned lots of these. I'm done with these, too. Great cars, though.

Nissan Z-car: I'm sure it could work, but these are getting a bit too old for me to consider.

Possible cars:

Mustang: Why the heck not? An automatic in this might not suck. Parts are readily available. LSDs are not uncommon. Show me a build thread, open my eyes. . Ford Focus: Fairly well documented for stage rally. They have a STUPID BOLT PATTERN. Very common and easy to find around here.

Mazda3: 5 speeds sometimes show up for 2 grand. I keep my eyes open for these. I also surf Copart. I would prefer a Mazda over a Focus or Escort, but the Mazda3 is probably heavier. My Mazdaspeed membership doesn't count for Fords, though.

Miata: can't find one around here that is a cheap beater, but I keep my eyes open all the time. Would require hard top and roll bar, so suddenly it stops being cheap at all. I hate you and you build thread for even making me consider this, EvanB. Congrats on the good job at Nationals.

Honda Civic: Pre-99 5 speed. Most of the aftermarket focuses on crap that doesn't help me. Some have been modified for stage rally. The Fast And Furious Tax seems to have expired, too. An Acura Integra would probably be a similar build.

Hyundai Accent: I heard somewhere that these can be a pleasant surprise. I'll wait for Bobzilla to chime in on this.

Probably my top 4 picks are the Miata, Mazda3, Ford Focus and Civic/Integra

EvanB and Keith have a Miata build fairly well covered.

Can somebody enlighten me about a Civic, Focus or Mazda3 for rallycross?

I'm going to be scouring Special Stage, too. Stage rally != rallycross, but those guys know all the tricks.

Since the 2 cars you described perfectly in what you are looking for are on the list of cars you don't want, how about an impreza or legacy?

There was a guy running a baja bug that looked liked a blast. Obviously it's not everything, and I've never personally rally-x'd rear wheel drive, but everyone seems to have more fun with the tail wagging. That's not to say front wheel drive isn't also fun in the mud, but my anecdotal evidence seemed to indicate awd/rwd was more fun than fwd.

I was using a civic (03) before I picked up the impreza and was happy with it. I have a 93 that will get some use when I finish the engine swap.

Do you see other plans for the car? RallyX is a great leveler and the best car you can find for your given budget would be the way to go if that was its only use. If track days or anything are also going to come into play, I think it affects your choice .

I beat on a 92 Volvo wagon. Non turbo auto. The nut behind the wheel is getting faster. It is a total blast.

I am in the same boat as you. I sold my rally-X Outback to get the funds for my WRX which I DD, so no rally-X for the last couple of years.

You need to look at the classes where you run and use that as a guide. Where I run they have FWD, RWD, N/A AWD and Turbo AWD.

Here would be my preferred list:

FWD - Focus (cheap, plentiful, cheap parts).
RWD - this one is tough - older RWD cars are mostly all rusted up here, but Mustang would be on my list.
NA AWD - Forester, OBS, or Impreza with Forester suspension. Our track ruts up bad due to sand base so need the extra clearance. My old Outback was too heavy.
Turbo AWD - very competitive. Personally I would avoid until I get quicker but swapped GC Subaru's have been the winners here.

I really think someone needs to build a '69 Charger as a rallycross car.

I have recently been thinking about a rx8 or FD rx7 for my next rallycross car, although I don't really believe in beaters for rallycross. My Miata has been my daily driver and rallycross car for the past couple years.

I did get a ride in a "slightly" modified WRX yesterday and I can definitely see the appeal of a turbo AWD car.

EvanB wrote: I did get a ride in a "slightly" modified WRX yesterday and I can definitely see the appeal of a turbo AWD car.

To recap Evan's point.

Spent all day driving a stock 2.5RS. Was a complete gigglefest driving this car because no matter what stupid situations we put it in, we could just wiggle the steering and play with the throttle/brakes and somehow come out of it. The car owner and I were riding along with each other and analysing the course and noting time lost here, time gained here, etc. and were both working to put together the Perfect Lap, and we got really really close to it. Ended up setting times that were well ahead of the other people in SA, and would have placed us midpack in M4.

Then during fun runs, I got to ride in the M4 class winner which was a WRX with... some mods. (No lightening, but antilag and funny fuel and good tires and good suspension and good diffs)

The only way I can describe it is that it was like watching my runs but artificially sped up. At no point did the car seem like it was sliding around, it just braked a lot harder, cornered a lot harder, and accelerated a LOT harder. It didn't seem real. If someone took a GoPro of the run and posted it, I would have replied with "OMG FAKE".

petegossett wrote: I really think someone needs to build a '69 Charger as a rallycross car.

Think you could convince whatever local chapter member that owns it to cough up the 01 numberplate?

Brett_Murphy wrote: Ford Focus: Fairly well documented for stage rally. They have a STUPID BOLT PATTERN. Very common and easy to find around here.

Don't worry about the wheels. There are tons of wheels available in the correct bolt pattern and offset for the Focus. Stock wheels are came from 14" to 17". Aftermarket provides many more options including some high $$$ rally specific ones.

I would go with the MZ3 personally, but for an alternative the protégé is a good chassis too, parts everywhere and for cheap, plenty of them in junkyards, and lost of plug and play along the years. (check my garage for my rally-x P5)

Volvo 240 or 740 (wagon if you want room to haul all your gear and wheels!). Or an e30. But since you didn't say e30 (even when referencing my build), I'm gonna assume that's not in the cards.

Volvo 240's are cheap, stout, RWD, have rally heritage, and easy to find on CL. M/T is tough to find, but you could always swap at some point. It would have been my other choice when I got the e30.

240sx? I realize that these have a high drift tax, but I've seen some rough ones go for under $1500 before.

Spoolpigeon wrote: 240sx? I realize that these have a high drift tax, but I've seen some rough ones go for under $1500 before.

I've always wondered how they'd be at rallycross. I just remember my roomie's 240 in high school seemed to be backwards a lot whenever it rained. How was the weight balance with them?

Infiniti G20 with some of the lux items thrown out?

pres589 wrote: Infiniti G20 with some of the lux items thrown out?

Wouldn't that essentially be a Nissan Pulsar?

In reply to irish44j:

We never got a Pulsar with the SR20. G20 would be a lot longer, I think, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

irish44j wrote:

pres589 wrote: Infiniti G20 with some of the lux items thrown out?

Wouldn't that essentially be a Nissan Pulsar?

It would essentially be a sentra.

pres589 wrote: In reply to irish44j: We never got a Pulsar with the SR20. G20 would be a lot longer, I think, and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Having lived overseas, I sometimes forget what did and didn't make it to the US shores

G20 is a Sentra SE-R with a really weird semi-kingpin arrangement for the front suspension, there's an upper control arm and half of the suspension upright doesn't rotate.

So: It has all of the problems that Sentra SE-Rs have (rear strut towers fall off of the car, no suspension travel, flywheels remove themselves ) and it also has a front suspension that Nissan has practically disowned and the aftermarket doesn't care for.

We've had someone with an NX2000 that had a turbo engine swapped in run at a few events... It was the car he bought to come back to the sport after he sold his previous car. It went maybe two events before the rear strut towers broke off and we never saw him again.

Apparently while I was editing this post I screwed it up:

BMW: I've owned E30s. They are great. Finding an example that isn't nice, isn't an automatic and isn't over $2500 is the problem. E36 models are cheaper, but I'm not sure how they would do. They might be great. I should do research on this.

Volvo: Rust is an issue. If I can find one of these in good shape in the area, it is on the list.

Impreza: I have a Subaru now. It is a Forester, so it isn't as competitive as an Impreza, but it is still fun. Imprezas are certainly on the list, but I'd want a 2002 or later car, and they are still up over $4000 for RS models. If I see one with light body damage or a dead engine the problem is pretty much solved.

I guess the Golf is still on the list, too, if I can get it running. I'm just really frustrated with it at the moment.

petegossett wrote: I really think someone needs to build a '69 Charger as a rallycross car.

Stealing my idea, eh?

I like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Other-2dr-Volvo-142-Custom-Rally-Baja-customized-rare-1974-pictured-with-Ron-Wood-/221305351633?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3386d3add1&item=221305351633&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Here's another good potential MR candidate. The engine is capable of stupid amounts of power:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-740-Turbo-Volvo-740-Turbo-Wagon-Manual-Trans-1-Owner-Survivor-/251366129388?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a8696beec&item=251366129388&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Brett_Murphy wrote: Apparently while I was editing this post I screwed it up: BMW: I've owned E30s. They are great. Finding an example that isn't nice, isn't an automatic and isn't over $2500 is the problem. E36 models are cheaper, but I'm not sure how they would do. They might be great. I should do research on this.

e36s do well. Better rear suspension than an e30 and more power in many cases. Quicker stock steering rack than an e30 too. They do have a slight weight/size penalty, but it depends on what kind of courses you guys run.

IIRC an e36 won or placed 2nd in one for the RWD classes at nationals this year.

We run courses that seriously favor the FWD guys because all of our VPs are FWD guys =)

They go for fast, sweeping courses for the most part.