Was watching the video of the accident. Maybe someone can explain the flag situation to me.
The first picture shows the double yellow flag.
The next picture is 11 seconds later and there is a double green waving.
Was the flag-person too quick on the draw here?
That's exactly what I thought when I saw that footage.
Green at the next corner, sure, but not there.
To make matters worse, the worker keeps waving green for quite a while after Bianchi hits.
Already covered in the main F1 thread (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/f1-2014/75521/page27/).
Since that's a 29+ page thread, the short answer is: nope, the flagging is correct. It's yellow when the workers are downstream of the station, green when they are upstream (which happens during the video as they move the car towards the hole in the fence), still green after Bianchi's crash because he's still upstream, and then yellow again when the safety car is called out for Bianchi.
codrus wrote: Already covered in the main F1 thread (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/f1-2014/75521/page27/). Since that's a 29+ page thread, the short answer is: nope, the flagging is correct. It's yellow when the workers are downstream of the station, green when they are upstream (which happens during the video as they move the car towards the hole in the fence), still green after Bianchi's crash because he's still upstream, and then yellow again when the safety car is called out for Bianchi.
Yuuuuup. And because I like quoting myself:
kylini wrote:Jim Pettengill wrote: When I posted a link to this site on one of the F1 boards, someone pointed out that the flag stand is beyond the accident site and was showing a green to indicate the resumption of racing - I know all about compression from telephoto lenses making things at a distance appear closer, but don't know if I agree with that - looks to be a station at or very close to the accident site to me, I would certainly expect a yellow at that site, what do you experienced flaggers think?If the accident is an inch upstream, I'm no flag (SCCA) or green flag (FIA). If the accident is at or slightly downstream, I'm waving yellow (SCCA) or double waving yellow (FIA). The number one concern is giving drivers accurate information on the location of an incident. That's why that tower was double waving yellow *until* the crane pulled the Sauber upstream, at which point it was waving green. **This is absolutely correct.** I guarantee the upstream station was yellow to cover the crane and workers. That section of the course was also *known* to be an accident site to all drivers (more than one lap of response before the second crash).
I don't know about the flagging but the impact actually lifted the crane up and moved it over. Just horrific and sickening to watch. Every body has their opinion but that shouldn't have happened.
It was interesting to see the flurry of action then the need to just wait around the crash. It was the best thing they could have done. Moving him would likely increase risk of damage to J Bianchi. Still the workers must be a bit traumatized by it all. Just guys like any of us on this forum having to keep doing your job to fly the green flag until told otherwise, call it in, and wait looking at the poor guy slumped over. 
It would be hard to forget.
Do corner flaggers not have authority in a particular part of the track?Not familiar with the course but reason dictates a yellow in that area. IMHO.Line of sight for the drivers would indicate a track (and runoff area) flagged all clear? Still Think his car broke.
TRoglodyte wrote: Do corner flaggers not have authority in a particular part of the track?Not familiar with the course but reason dictates a yellow in that area. IMHO.Line of sight for the drivers would indicate a track (and runoff area) flagged all clear? Still Think his car broke.
Flagging is governed by rules and rules are enforced by race control. That area was covered by a yellow well before the location of the incident even after station 12 went green. If a driver is going ridiculously fast, they need to see the yellow before the incident, not at the incident. Likewise, a driver needs to know accurately when it's safe to proceed, which is after the green flag of station 12. A green flag doesn't mean go fast when you see one. A green flag means go fast once you pass one.
For F1, they crack down on flagging more than other races because consistency is crazy important. Race control generally controls the LED boards and they will call on radio asking you to change flag if you're not right. It's still the flagger's responsibility to put out a yellow to cover an incident, which happened correctly.
So station 11 was showing yellow.Green flag after station 12.
F1 has a ridiculous safety car policy that has put the drivers and corner workers in danger for years. If there is a disabled car in a dangerous location, it needs to be removed. No one should exit the car and no safety workers should enter the track until the cars are behind the safety car and traveling at a safe speed. With the way F1 encourages people to run around on "hot" tracks under "local" yellow conditions, I'm amazed this doesn't happen more often. Unless you consider the Crain to be an acceptable type of wall, no car should be going near race speeds while the Crain is between the car and the tire wall.
F1 has rules regarding drivers' behavior and their speed through local yellows. Years ago an up-and-coming rookie ignored a local flag and crashed into the debris left by a big Mark Webber accident; I don't remember "the Brow" getting as much as a slapped wrist for that crap. It's long past time to actually enforce those rules.
CrashDummy wrote: Unless you consider the Crain to be an acceptable type of wall, no car should be going near race speeds while the Crain is between the car and the tire wall.
Doubly so in the wet weather conditions seen throughout this race.
All I have to add is that if I'm in a race car of any kind and there's people or anything that's not a race car on the race track, I damn well expect to be under a full course caution. That situation is so far beyond acceptable, my brain starts to shut down.
ncjay wrote: All I have to add is that if I'm in a race car of any kind and there's people or anything that's not a race car on the race track, I damn well expect to be under a full course caution. That situation is so far beyond acceptable, my brain starts to shut down.
Even for amateur SCCA club racing, we aren't full course caution if we're responding off the racing surface. The only thing that blows my mind about this is the dangerous as heck tractors they use (hopefully used in the near future).
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