Big Wheels < Small Wheels

ProDarwin wrote: I like the wheels which fit the tire I want to run.

I love the 15 inch factory wheels I have for my two 2nd generation Firebirds. I hate the very limited selection of S & T rated all-seasons you can buy for those wheels.

I am thinking about buying 17" or even 18" wheels not for the look, but so that I can put on any tire considered even mildly performance-oriented.

b13990 wrote: I tend to like relatively small wheels (16-18") and relatively high aspect ratios (45% or more).

It depends on the car to a great extemt, but I don't think I can make 18", or even 16" "small" in my head...

Similarly, 45s are the lowest aspect ratio tires I've ever owned... (225/45-15s on an E30)

I recognize that this mostly makes me an owner of outdated machinery, but still...

Pre-EDIT: Oh, right. I have a WRX, so I have had more 45s... It's on 235/45-17s... Those seem HUGE to me...

In reply to b13990:

The whole car was discovered in Clifford's albino cousin's droppings.....

SEADave wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: I like the wheels which fit the tire I want to run.

I love the 15 inch factory wheels I have for my two 2nd generation Firebirds. I hate the very limited selection of S & T rated all-seasons you can buy for those wheels. I am thinking about buying 17" or even 18" wheels not for the look, but so that I can put on any tire considered even mildly performance-oriented.

I was in the same boat with my 72 Firebird, so finally broke down and ordered 17x8s for the front and 17x9s for the rear. I plan to run 245/45/17 and 275/40/17 tires. I looked at both 17s and 18s and liked the more tire/less wheel look of the 17s. Once they come in and I get them mounted I'll post pics.

There are two ways to approach the issues of wheel size.
The first is looks - This is subjective and can not be solved due to personal preferences, ever.
The second is performance related in several more ways.
2A - For the same size tire rolling diameter and tread width the larger wheel (shorter sidewall/lower aspect ratio) will lkely be the best performer. Hard launches may be the only place that smaller wheels/larger sidewall will perform better.
2B - The ride quality will get progressively wosre and the wheel/tire inertia will increase with increased wheel size.
2C - Cost generally increases with increased wheel size and decreased sidewall aspect ratio.
2D - Braking capacity (diamter of brakes is increased with wheel diamter), but if making a ture wheel/tire comparison the brake size must be held constant.
2E - Tire compound generally has more performance options (grippier) as the wheel size increases.

At the end of the day figure out what tire you want to run (manufacturer and compound), then figure out the wheel that fits it to your car...

So in the case of the turbo-mopar community im pretty active in, they definitely have a bad case of being stuck on small wheels and tires.

I like some each and have some each way (ive owned and driven cars with every wheel diameter from 13 to 18, and 18 is big on the small cars i own..), but i definitely have a preference toward mildly large wheel/tires. Here's two of my current cars next to each other. The one on the left is basically 'normal' in the TM world.. 6" wide wheel, 205 wide tire, barely lowered, bunch of wheel gap, etc. The one on the right is lowered (between suspension and tire diameter) almost 6" and has 245s on 8" wheels. Which one do you think i prefer? Which one do you prefer?

I guess a good way of charactering my preference is i like to fit the widest tire on the widest wheel with the least wheelgap, right up to the point where you have to start doing the stupid E36 M3 that adds up to hellaflush. Im not into stretching the E36 M3 out of 195s and running 11* of negative camber so i can run 9" wheels with 0 offset on my FWD compact. There is such a thing as taking a good idea too far.

As far as rim diameter, i really think that is totally connected to the size/shape of the wheel OPENING on any given car body. For example, 17s looks stupid on an EG Civic. 17s also look stupid on a Challenger. They look stupid for completely different reasons, right? Or... the same reason.

Bad execution of big wheels:

Surprisingly sexy execution of big wheels:

Current smaller wheels. I need to lower it more for it to look right, mostly in the back.

REALLY surprisingly sexy execution of big wheels:

Small wheels. Meh.

I'm of the opinion that pretty much anything made in the 90s looks perfect on 16s.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Anything small......sho's look stupid on 16's with their 60 series tires and such.....

b13990 wrote: I tend to like relatively small wheels (16-18") and relatively high aspect ratios (45% or more).

wait a minutes... 45% is high aspect ratio?!?

mad_machine wrote:

b13990 wrote: I tend to like relatively small wheels (16-18") and relatively high aspect ratios (45% or more).

wait a minutes... 45% is high aspect ratio?!?

Word, 50 profile is pushing the limits of berkeleying yourself in the handling department.....35, 40, and 45 profile are where the diameter of your wheel doesn't matter anymore.

z31maniac wrote: I love big wheels. Must be a leftover from playing with hotwheels as a kid. I'm digging all the NC Miata's I've seen with 18s and wide 35 series tires.

Where is my "vote down" button?

When we're talking about appearance, give me a tall skinny tire with white sidewalls

I'm not a fan of the stretched rubber band look, purely for aesthetics, but when it's done because that's how you fit it over the brakes that are required...

F1 cars run the wheels they do because the rules say they have to, but there's no way you'd get 24 hours worth of brakes under them.

Try buying a 205/60/13. They only exist in either high dollar race tires or really crappy no name tires.

Nascars run 15" wheels. wonder what the aspect ratio is. ?

I vote keep those wheels and lower the back like you said.

mad_machine wrote:

b13990 wrote: I tend to like relatively small wheels (16-18") and relatively high aspect ratios (45% or more).

wait a minutes... 45% is high aspect ratio?!?

I said "45% or more." Yeah, 45% itself is pretty thin... but as a lower limit, it's semi-reasonable. I'm not going to say that any 45% tire looks ridiculous. I did basically say that about 40% and lower.

b13990 wrote: I said "45% or more." Yeah, 45% itself is pretty thin... but as a lower limit, it's semi-reasonable. I'm not going to say that any 45% tire looks ridiculous. I did basically say that about 40% and lower.

It's really about the sidewall height vs the rim diameter, not about the sidewall height vs the tire width.

These are 35-aspect ratio tires. :)

It all depends on the car. 13" or 14" 205s look great on a 70s Capri. 15s start to look too big. Too bad there's absolutely no such thing as a good 13" or 14" tire any more.

225 15s looked perfect on the Celica, but to get good tires I had to go to 16s. I think they look too big. It looks cool on the 275 Hoosiers, but would look silly on the street.

codrus wrote: These are 35-aspect ratio tires. :)

Is that a 275 15" Hoosier? Does that car eat up that much tire that easily? Look super.

Vigo wrote: I vote keep those wheels and lower the back like you said.

I really REALLY dig that look. Identical gap front and rear would look perfect!

I hate that the choices in available tires are forcing many of us to buy bigger wheels to get the tires we want.

The Firebird Formula came with 16" wheels from the factory. Thats fine with me. Try to find a nice sticky street tire in a proper size? Nope. You can get a full on R-Comp or something in 300+ treadwear.

So, lets step down to 15". Can I get a 245-265? Nope. 225/45 for a nice sticky is about all you'll find. Not nearly enough tire. Again bigger sizes are out there in full on race slicks or all season cruiser tires.

So now I'm shopping 17". They'll weigh a ton, and tires will be pushing $200 each....

stafford1500 wrote: There are two ways to approach the issues of wheel size. The first is looks - This is subjective and can not be solved due to personal preferences, ever. The second is performance related in several more ways. 2A - For the same size tire rolling diameter and tread width the larger wheel (shorter sidewall/lower aspect ratio) will lkely be the best performer. Hard launches may be the only place that smaller wheels/larger sidewall will perform better. 2B - The ride quality will get progressively wosre and the wheel/tire inertia will increase with increased wheel size. 2C - Cost generally increases with increased wheel size and decreased sidewall aspect ratio. 2D - Braking capacity (diamter of brakes is increased with wheel diamter), but if making a ture wheel/tire comparison the brake size must be held constant. 2E - Tire compound generally has more performance options (grippier) as the wheel size increases. At the end of the day figure out what tire you want to run (manufacturer and compound), then figure out the wheel that fits it to your car...

"Game. Set. Match." with this post.

It's all personal preference and no one will change anyone's mind here.

My personal thinking, I run the smallest wheel that will fit over my brakes when it comes to a track car. Usually a 15 inch so I can run a 205/50 or 225/50. Big guy in a little car, but I like my consumables to be cheap.

As far as DD goes, I like what is cheap again, but generally bigger looks better in late model cars more. I have a 66 Ranch Wagon that I am putting some 15" Torque Thrusts on but I wish I would have gone bigger. I will eventually.

But there are alot of people that put too big or too ugly of wheels on their cars(personal preference of course). I see it EVERYDAY working at a custom wheel shop. I see Asanti and Lexani wheels going on luxury and sports cars all the time. Seriously, super ugly wheels.

Seriously, does this E36 M3 look good? I don't get it...

Of course, because I don't like 90% of these wheel packages I do, I am considered a hater. Hence the professional hater signature.

Here's a (free) link to the article everyone mentioned above: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/speed-holes/. I personally don't care for uber low profile tires either in terms of looks or driving experience. I wish GRM tested only sidewall width and only tread width in separate tests, they didn't exactly follow the scientific method.

We're returning to out roots.

The Firebird Formula came with 16" wheels from the factory. Thats fine with me. Try to find a nice sticky street tire in a proper size? Nope. You can get a full on R-Comp or something in 300+ treadwear.

Since i dont know the treadwear i cant dispute that claim but i will bring up that primewell pz900 sells 245/45r16 and 245/50r16 and seem to have good value/dollar based on comments/threads ive recently read here and on the LeMons forums.