Engine swap the Javelin?

After reading up on all of the EFI conversions out there, pricing various systems out, and even buying some parts, I've come to the conclusion that it's just too much money to convert a V8 AMC to EFI right now. I can either compromise with a ~$1200 TBI 4-Bbl setup, buy a hideously expensive Edelbrock Pro-Flo port EFI setup, or klodge my own together out of whatever I find and hope it works. I even looked into things like buying an EFI 302 and basically swapping in the wiring/ECM/etc and making a custom intake, but even that likely won't work well.

Then comes the realization that my engine (the original) needs refreshing anyway, what with it's lame smog cam, weak springs, and low compression. The bones are good, but I'd easily spend $2K just doing a basic overhaul (rings/bearings/seals/gaskets) with a new set of cast pistons and a bore/hone.

So, what about swapping something in? LS is the obvious answer, especially since my car is an auto, but it feels dirty. Chrysler bought out AMC, so a new 5.7 Hemi would actually be sorta like a new AMC V8, and would be pretty cool and different. A Ram take out (dear science help me if z31 reads that) would actually be pretty cheap, and I could use the trans. Then I'd have EFI, A/C, OD, etc, etc.

If you're a believer, then the pilfering an engine from a Ram truck would be appropriate. I'm a fan of LS swaps, however and you can be sure someone's done the swap you're thinking about. Whatever is on your mind there. Price, however, I have no clue on.

My dad just picked up a 2011 Ram Sport and he said the 5.7 is rated at 390 hp. Hmmm drop a ton off that truck and it would quite entertaining.

I fully support this decision.

Under no circumstance should you go outside of the family.

In reply to DoctorBlade:

I don't think anybody has done an LS into AMC, but I could be wrong, they have put them everywhere else. I do know of at least 1 SBF 5.0 Spirit and 1 5.7 Hemi Javelin.

Yes and no. I agree with the idea of swapping in a modern Hemi, but do some digging. From what I've read in the Mopar rags, the OE ECU wants to "talk" to the chassic control computer(s) and when it can't, it's not happy. IIRC, Mopar performance (and possibly others) sell a ECU's and harness that allow the engine to work in a stand-alone situation.

There may be "get-arounds", but I'm not sure that would be any easier than building a Megasquirt set-up.

iceracer wrote: Under no circumstance should you go outside of the family.

My transmission is already a 727 Torque Flite from Chrysler, so it's not that bad!

In reply to Ian F:

Good points. I've heard of that early-Hemi ECU issues, too. I'd probably MS the thing using the stock sensors, so all I would need is the brain box and the wiring harness from those guys.

All I can add is that apparently one of the overdrive automatic transmissions used in the Grand Cherokee is particularly easy to run without a computer and should bolt up to mopar motors.

Edit: it's the AW4, and it can be controlled pretty much manually wit a couple of toggle switches, but it only comes in AMC bolt patterns (unless you get the 2.5l one or Toyota one)

So probably not a lot of help unless you stay AMC

If you're going to MS the thing, why not find a 454 TBI unit, get or make an adapter, and keep the motor you have? I don't know where these things run out of flow, they're pretty large though, probably equivalent to somewhere between 500 and 600 cfm as measured in 4-barrel-ese?

AMC is dead. The 'family' relationship with Chrysler is a tenuous attempt to not have people make fun of you.

Screw 'em.

I feel AMC is no different than Studebaker or Packard; there is no immediate family to cull an engine from, so do whatever makes sense. It's your car; do what you want. The LS is tough to beat.

5.0 straight six stroker?

or, my personal favorite: weld in injector bungs from ross machine to an old single plane intake. use universal fuel rails, ls injectors that rougly match your horsepower requirements, convert AMC electronic distributor to HEI module, and nab the magnum throttle body and 4bbl carb adaptor that I have on the shelf. power with megasquirt, use a rail mounted fuel pump and some corner pickups.

the efi hardware aint hard. ots the computer side I have trouble with. if I could tune things, and actually havethem run, my duster would already be done.

as far as blasphemy, if your gonna go, go big. 500+ cube mopar big block.

Get a 6.1L Hemi out of a STR8 Jeep. That's about as close a descendant as you can get for your Javelin. Or go Jeep 4.0 and a turbo.

Seriously, I know some guys from the track running a 6.1L in a '71 Duster, pretty basic car, 727, 8 3/4 rear filled with 4.10's. Car clicks off consistent 11.71's. Motor is bone stock except for the throttle body and headers.

Personally I'd rather see you keep the AMC motor in there. Check with Matt, I think the DIY guys were coming out with their own TBI throttle body.

keep it AMC, but go with modern efi if that's what floats your boat... i think they used Motorcraft distributors with all the same guts as Fords, which means that the electronics from a Ford would be the easiest thing to do... weld injector bungs into a used single plane intake and use the Ford throttle body via one of the many available adapters that mount them to a standard square bore intake.

Keep the carb. Keep the AMC....get a low mile junkyard motor if you must. You can get more than enough power...and sacrifice a little MPGs...and save a E36 M3-ton of cash. There are plenty of recipes on Car Craft or Hot Rod to follow... like this one here.

or

AMC budget 383 stroker rebuild...

The 5.7 uses the same Small block bellhousing pattern from the LA engines. You can use a 727 or if you like a 518 (46RH) from a 88-93 dodge truck. There is a kit that will allow you to activate the lockup and overdrive using GM pressure senders. Either that or Viper T56

Mopar is making ECUs that run just spark and used with a carb intake or that will run the EFI and spark but they are cubic $$.

careful rebuild and carb would be my 1st choice. What 4 speed auto will bolt to an AMC? Adapter plates?

Choice 2, if your rotating assembly is good, fresh cam and head work the build a TBI (or dual TBI) system. GM TBI harness and injectors are nearly free at the JY. MS can run it. Then again a good carb will do the job with less fiddling about.

Used LSX with attached auto trans would be the quick and dirty way, you can always take it back out later, right?

Hemi sounds cool, but the engine computer support is way more expensive and less supported than GM.

oldopelguy wrote: All I can add is that apparently one of the overdrive automatic transmissions used in the Grand Cherokee is particularly easy to run without a computer and should bolt up to mopar motors. Edit: it's the AW4, and it can be controlled pretty much manually wit a couple of toggle switches, but it only comes in AMC bolt patterns (unless you get the 2.5l one or Toyota one) So probably not a lot of help unless you stay AMC

That's actually a lot of help if I want to stay AMC. I'm about 75% sure that's a 727TF with an OD attached, too...

pres589 wrote: If you're going to MS the thing, why not find a 454 TBI unit, get or make an adapter, and keep the motor you have? I don't know where these things run out of flow, they're pretty large though, probably equivalent to somewhere between 500 and 600 cfm as measured in 4-barrel-ese?

I did not know those existed! Off to the interwebz...

Rob_Mopar wrote: Personally I'd rather see you keep the AMC motor in there. Check with Matt, I think the DIY guys were coming out with their own TBI throttle body.

I've been checking with him for awhile. They have a TB, but it's for port injection. All-in, I'd have about $1000 more worth of stuff to buy to homemake that setup.

AW4 info http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/aw4.htm

Gearheadotaku wrote: careful rebuild and carb would be my 1st choice.

Darn it all, that probably makes the most sense. My 360 is very strong (and low mileage). I could yank it out and probably get away with reusing the pistons (but be stuck with low compression) and have Pops send over all the parts. A healthy cam, dual-plane intake, and some headers ought to wake it up pretty nicely. Figure on ~360ish HP possible.

Add in that OD version of the 727TF and I'd be okay. The drivability sucks with the carburetor though (and it's a new 625 Carter AFB), and that's really what I want to change. I suppose a better carb (with real tuning), a full electronic ignition (single point now), and cam would help things (the stock one really is that bad for 73).

moparman76_69 wrote: AW4 info http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/aw4.htm

That won't work, my motor has more than it's torque rating now. But it does lead me to the 727TF w/ OD called the A518. Bonus points is the OD is confined to the removable tailshaft, so I should be able to yank the tailshaft off of one and drop it into my 727 in the car!

Info: http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/07/01/hmn_feature15.html

What do I know.......

keep and rebuild the AMC... do a bit of port work, proper 3 angle, get a mild cam, is there a mild roller for your block? Have injector ports added and run multi-port efi. Put a crank and cam sensor on it...

Make it substantially more efficient(and more powerful) by adding intelligence to your engines existing muscle. Add the O/D 727 you have banging around in your mind and you might get off the line quicker... with enough fuel remaining to get to work.

Javelin wrote:

moparman76_69 wrote: AW4 info http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/aw4.htm

That won't work, my motor has more than it's torque rating now. But it does lead me to the 727TF w/ OD called the A518. Bonus points is the OD is confined to the removable tailshaft, so I *should* be able to yank the tailshaft off of one and drop it into my 727 in the car! Info: http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/07/01/hmn_feature15.html

The cases are different from the 727 & the 518 families. The OD unit won't bolt up to a regular 727. Sorry.